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-   70-72 GTO Tempest & LeMans TECH (https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=436)
-   -   How come 72 GTO's are not worth that much? (https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=841801)

PontiacJim1959 06-25-2020 07:29 PM

Comparing Pontiac's to Chevelles, or Buicks to Chevelles, or Oldsmobiles to Chevelles is apples and oranges. The Chevelle will always be far more popular and desirable than a Pontiac of the same year. With the trend towards LS conversions and 5/6 speed manual transmission bolt in swaps, there is no comparison to driveline popularity with the generation that is now looking for these cars. One reason there are more and more LS conversions going into GTO/Pontiacs. Look at the price comparison to get equal HP engine to engine. Pontiac engine's are not cheap to build. And, you can't just go to a junkyard, craigslist, or dealer and order a Pontiac engine.

The 1972 GTO is not a desireable, nor attractive, body style. It has a bulky & clumsy looking nose. It is about as desirable as the 1973 GTO. The saleable ones are indeed based on the drivetrain which would be the higher HP & manual 4-speed cars.

The low compression, low HP, TH-400 and 3.08 gearing does not fit the mold of the GTO name that most are looking for. I suspect a Honda would have no problem running circles around the car.

The color is horrific, factory or not, period. Some people will put a personal favorite/custom color on the car because they like it, thought it was cool, or just wanted something custom. That color is not a generic and saleable color like black, green, red, etc..

Looks like a lot of spray bomb and under coating. When I see that, it scares me away because I don't care if you say it was rust free or not. No car almost 50 years old is rust free. Surface rust is not rust free. I personally would be more comfortable seeing an unmolested car showing its age to include rust/surface rust and pitting.

I find it funny that you are complaining you cannot sell it, but you could have. So in being obstinate and steadfast on your price, you lost out on a 19K sale. So now you talk about modding it which will put you deeper in the money pit hole. Are you ready to take a bigger loss?

Ditch the '72 nose and install the more pleasing '72 Lemans nose with chrome bumper on it. Put the GTO crap in the corner for the next guy. Customize? Add a pair of the Firebird Formula hood scoops. Guy in high school had this and it was outstanding. Ditch the mags and go with factory Pontiac mags/trim rings or even steel rims with dog dish hubcaps. Paint the car black and add the reflective Gold '72 body side stripes.

You could even fit the car with the more desirable 1970 GTO nose and Judge stripes.

Use the engine as a base build. Go with a stroker 461 kit from Butler. Have the 7K3 heads ported and rebuilt to flow 240 CFM's. Get a lumpy matching cam BECAUSE lumpy idle sells. RA exhaust manifolds and 2 1/2" pipes.

TH-400 is old school, but can still be kept. Add a "tight" 2500 stall converter, HD clutches & sprag, shift improver kit like Transgo which allows for both manual shifts as well as automatic shifting in Drive.

3.08's will work well with the bigger cubes & torque and the higher stall converter.

Now you will have a saleable package that looks good, sounds good, and will shred tires - all of which an older Pontiac buyer is looking for. Put an LS 5/6 speed or OD trans in it and you will peek the interest of the millenium crowd IF they have a job to support the price you'll be asking.

Any item anyone sells is only worth what another is willing to spend to acquire it. Apparently your selling price as viewed by potential buyers over a 3 year period just isn't working. You may want to let your children know what you think it is worth in your will, otherwise they may sell it at market price.

etd66ss 06-25-2020 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankieT/A (Post 6154518)
Ok since you wanted honesty...

My opinion:
The heavy metallic paint is killing you.
Second; you keep comparing your 72 to cars of the sixties.
If you want to compare, compare to similarly opted 71-72's like a 442 but not a W-30 or Hurst or a Buick GS but not a Stage 2 or stage 1, etc. Apples for Apples.

Tons of examples: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-Chevro...wAAOSwn0Ne7hqQ

Not to say the seller will get what he's asking, but likely to get over $22k for a fake SS. My GTO is in much better shape underneath in terms of presentation, but both cars are solid original sheet metal and similar quality of interior.

gokitty 06-25-2020 08:02 PM

The color. $20K in this car's apparent condition in a period GM hue and it would have been gone. My 2 cents worth.

FrankieT/A 06-25-2020 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by etd66ss (Post 6154523)
Tons of examples: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-Chevro...wAAOSwn0Ne7hqQ

Not to say the seller will get what he's asking, but likely to get over $22k for a fake SS. My GTO is in much better shape underneath in terms of presentation, but both cars are solid original sheet metal and similar quality of interior.

Notice I didn't mention Chevelle. Although I'm a Pontiac guy there are Chevy people and then there are BOP people.

etd66ss 06-25-2020 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gokitty (Post 6154530)
The color. $20K in this car's apparent condition in a period GM hue and it would have been gone. My 2 cents worth.

Yeah, I would agree with that in my case. However a re-spray would likely be a profit wash.

etd66ss 06-25-2020 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankieT/A (Post 6154532)
Notice I didn't mention Chevelle. Although I'm a Pontiac guy there are Chevy people and then there are BOP people.

I come from the Chevelle world. This GTO is my first Pontiac ever and I'm in my late 40's.

I mean maybe it's a good thing, BOP car value is lower when looking to buy :)

ramairformula74 06-25-2020 08:13 PM

Personally my favorite is the 71-72 GTO’s. I always wanted a 71 but I just bought a project 72. It is a 400, M22, Lucerne Blue car. The trans was pulled out in 82-84 but I will find another when this is ready. I can say mine was cheap due to the rust and state it is in. I planned it this way and plan for a 5yr project atleast. I plan to spend a few thousand each year maybe more. I’m surprised these don’t garner attention based on the low production numbers but the purists want that 242 VIN and I’m sure they look down on these. My opinion of course.

FrankieT/A 06-25-2020 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by etd66ss (Post 6154534)
Yeah, I would agree with that in my case. However a re-spray would likely be a profit wash.

I agree, but I feel anybody looking at your car is thinking, "The first thing I need to do to car is paint it". I don't think a color change would hurt as much as the metallic. No offense but I have an uncle that had a dune buggy back in the sixties that color or reminiscent of a Glastron boat. In my opinion its dated.

etd66ss 06-25-2020 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ramairformula74 (Post 6154539)
Personally my favorite is the 71-72 GTO’s. I always wanted a 71 but I just bought a project 72. It is a 400, M22, Lucerne Blue car. The trans was pulled out in 82-84 but I will find another when this is ready. I can say mine was cheap due to the rust and state it is in. I planned it this way and plan for a 5yr project atleast. I plan to spend a few thousand each year maybe more. I’m surprised these don’t garner attention based on the low production numbers but the purists want that 242 VIN and I’m sure they look down on these. My opinion of course.

I'm curious, where do you get your sheet metal from? I have a habit, before going and looking at a rusty project car to look on the AMD website for sheet metal. If AMD does not even make the QTR's, I won't bother looking at the car. I like AMD specifically because they use correct gauge sheet metal, and so far their tooling seems to be about the best out there. Do BOP cars have their own version of Auto Metal Direct to source QTR's, doors skins & shells, fenders, wheel houses etc? I have become allergic to the thin gauge Asian sheet metal panels and simply will not use them anymore.

I see NOS or very good used 72 GTO fenders online selling for crazy money, and not sure there are even any repos available?

etd66ss 06-25-2020 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankieT/A (Post 6154541)
I agree, but I feel anybody looking at your car is thinking, "The first thing I need to do to car is paint it". I don't think a color change would hurt as much as the metallic. No offense but I have an uncle that had a dune buggy back in the sixties that color or reminiscent of a Glastron boat. In my opinion its dated.

Would not have been my choice of color either, but the paint job is from 2007 so not too old. And, when I bought the car, I knew the color sucked, the clean metal is what got me.

FrankieT/A 06-25-2020 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by etd66ss (Post 6154542)
I'm curious, where do you get your sheet metal from? I have a habit, before going and looking at a rusty project car to look on the AMD website for sheet metal. If AMD does not even make the QTR's, I won't bother looking at the car. I like AMD specifically because they use correct gauge sheet metal, and so far their tooling seems to be about the best out there. Do BOP cars have their own version of Auto Metal Direct to source QTR's, doors skins & shells, fenders, wheel houses etc? I have become allergic to the thin gauge Asian sheet metal panels and simply will not use them anymore.

I see NOS or very good used 72 GTO fenders online selling for crazy money, and not sure there are even any repos available?

Its funny you say that I have a friend that had a pair of NOS quarters for his 71 GTO and he sold them 20 years ago for $3500.00 for the pair. I thought that was crazy money back then. And the messed part was he had the car for them, actually a convertible.

etd66ss 06-25-2020 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankieT/A (Post 6154545)
Its funny you say that I have a friend that had a pair of NOS quarters for his 71 GTO and he sold them 20 years ago for $3500.00 for the pair. I thought that was crazy money back then. And the messed part was he had the car for them, actually a convertible.

When I started my 66 Chevelle SS396 resto in 1998 NOS QTR's were selling for $3500 each... Now with AMD making them, good fit and correct gauge, those prices for NOS have come way down. I wish AMD made the 66 SS hood, as I have Taiwan Goodmark hood on there and it bothers me that the sheet metal gauge is wrong. Good used ones are very hard to come by.

hgerhardt 06-25-2020 08:45 PM

Indeed the color is single biggest factor in putting a lid on the value of this car. The quality of the paint job looks quite good, but that color is extremely polarizing.

The '72 GTO has black grilles, which make the front end less homely than a '71, so that is in your favor IMHO.

Unfortunately, a good paint job is north of $5000 and you'll probably not recoup that if all you want to do is make it more saleable.

You must have really liked that color or you wouldn't have bought it/painted it that way. If you still like it, do like a PP said and build a 440+ CID Pontiac and put EFI on it and do a 4L80E... or even a stick. There's a guy on this board who's selling kits based on GM ECU's which could run the engine AND the 4L80E.

'64-'72 A-bodies are technically superior to pretty much any Chrysler/Ford product of that era and can be turned into a pretty seriously capable car... IF you want to invest the energy and $$ to get there.

After all, what is the purpose for owning these (now ancient) cars? To be a good investment or to be a good toy? If the latter, THIS car is an excellent one to start with!

Chief of the 60's 06-25-2020 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankieT/A (Post 6154545)
Its funny you say that I have a friend that had a pair of NOS quarters for his 71 GTO and he sold them 20 years ago for $3500.00 for the pair. I thought that was crazy money back then. And the messed part was he had the car for them, actually a convertible.

Parts are one thing, cars are a totally different story. I know plenty of people that got $3500.00 a set back then. Even saw singles for $2200.00. I used to get $1750.00 per side and sold a lot of them. Now, I have 1 left quarter left for $1350.00. Why? Because no one is paying $1750.00 - $2200.00 for them anymore when there is Chinese junk out there.

People today aren't building Pontiac GTO's they're building Taiwan GTO's.

Jerry H. 06-25-2020 08:52 PM

If you seriously had it for sale you should have taken the 19k.

Chief of the 60's 06-25-2020 08:56 PM

Can someone post up a photo of this car. All I get are black boxes when I click on the link.

etd66ss 06-25-2020 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hgerhardt (Post 6154550)
Indeed the color is single biggest factor in putting a lid on the value of this car. The quality of the paint job looks quite good, but that color is extremely polarizing.

The '72 GTO has black grilles, which make the front end less homely than a '71, so that is in your favor IMHO.

Unfortunately, a good paint job is north of $5000 and you'll probably not recoup that if all you want to do is make it more saleable.

You must have really liked that color or you wouldn't have bought it/painted it that way. If you still like it, do like a PP said and build a 440+ CID Pontiac and put EFI on it and do a 4L80E... or even a stick. There's a guy on this board who's selling kits based on GM ECU's which could run the engine AND the 4L80E.

'64-'72 A-bodies are technically superior to pretty much any Chrysler/Ford product of that era and can be turned into a pretty seriously capable car... IF you want to invest the energy and $$ to get there.

After all, what is the purpose for owning these (now ancient) cars? To be a good investment or to be a good toy? If the latter, THIS car is an excellent one to start with!

Well, I was not fond of the color when I bought it. The restomod wheels were definitely turning in my head when I bought it. However, just like a lot of guys, I have a too many projects. I don't think I would ever respray to try to make the car more desirable, I'd lose money. So it's either sell it for less than what I think it should sell for, or go ahead and spend $40k making a ridiculous toy.

etd66ss 06-25-2020 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's (Post 6154558)
Can someone post up a photo of this car. All I get are black boxes when I click on the link.

https://i.imgur.com/PAwppO3.jpg

Chief of the 60's 06-25-2020 10:11 PM

LOL! That? ^ ^ ^

That is not all that bad and certainly not that big of a deal breaker. I have seen a hell of a lot worse. Quite frankly, I would take that metalflake orange over that Verdoro Green any day and it goes well with the wheels.

What sucks is that I see you're in NY and had I not just spent 31 grand on a car 2 weeks ago, we would be talking.

Also, being from NY, I know full well that people in NY won't pay s hit for anything. Market that car outside of NY and I'm sure it will be gone. Try Racing Junk, it's free.

That car is well worth 20 grand

post toastie 06-25-2020 10:50 PM

I would need garage space, unfortunately I dont, very nice car. I think 2 inch lowering springs and a some year one 17 x 9 honeycombs would look great on this car.


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