The ported heads say extended warranty unavailable, but the standard heads are. Kinda like buying a pig in a poke.

I see today you can now add the CNC version of SPEEDMASTER heads to your cart - was not available to do most of the weekend.

$1,491 /pr


https://www.speedmaster79.com/Pontia...Cylinder-Heads

You don’t consider less than $1200.00 a good price?

If olds heads are $780, why would I consider Pontiac heads for $1193 a good price? They don't contain any better materials than an olds head does, do they? The extra $400 dollars per pair is justified how?

Edelbrock set the stage for the extra money over other brands that has never been justified. I know that AMC and olds don't sell more units than Pontiac does, yet they're much cheaper. If it doesn't bother you to pay the upcharge, that's fine, it bothers me to be taken advantage of. Just because I prefer to run a Pontiac Stratostreak engine I should just be happy to pay 30% over other brands aluminum heads?

I have 2 pairs of Pontiac iron round port that I own (455 HO, and RA IV) at a very reasonable price, I've had them gone through, and had port work done on them for a lot less investment than $1200, I'll live with them just fine. I don't need the aluminum heads at that price.

If no one questions the pricing, it will never change. Edelbrock has gotten their asking price for at least 25 years, I think they got their investment returned many times over in that time, Am I right, or wrong? I know that Pontiac heads doesn't sell as many units as chevy does, so they will be more expensive, but olds and AMC are much closer to chevy pricing than Pontiac heads are. I want the manufacturers to justify why, and when they're confronted, you get no answer, just crickets.

Being around high performance Pontiac cars and engines for over 50 years, I expect to pay more than chevy fans do, it's always been that way, but because I chose to race/drive Pontiacs why should I pay much more than AMC, or olds fans do, for the same basic product. If that doesn't bother you, that's fine, it bothers me though. Maybe that comes from being raised by depression era parents, it's just the way I think though when it comes to being overcharged for a product, rant over.

:focus:

It don't look like much of a CNC version in the pics. Too me it looks like a port match only. Maybe why there is no flow rating. J/S.

I know the olds guys have been buying these heads like cord wood for years. Bernard Mondello basically started a business out of buying the bare heads, installing good quality stainless valves, springs and hardware, and light machining for guide clearances and a good valve job. Sold them that way and they flew off the shelves. He has since gone away from using speedmaster for reasons unknown, but I know a LOT of Olds heads have been sold and are in service. Not that I don't agree that prices are unreasonable for the Pontiac equivalent.

Would you buy the heads you have now for 2500 and 4000 bucks you got them years ago and if you sell them you won’t get a deal on them again. So if I’m building a engine for fun not numbers matching I’m going the 1200 route granted only a couple days a year but not 2500 for heads that need work because if they are fresh they are going to be even more. The last pair of r/a II heads I saw fresh ready to install was $4500 cores are 3000+

Someone should ask the Guy in California, to ask the Guy in Australia to ask the Guy in China about the quality of the CNC port job.... That way you will be getting the information from the guy doing the work (first hand)... And then ask what brand of flow bench they use.

Paul,
You sure the guy in China just didn't digitize one of your ports? :eek:

Stan

Only reason its "good" is we are used to getting reamed for so long.
Its just because they can. And of all the ancient out of production weirdo engines, AMC, Buick, Olds, FE Pontiac sells more.
Its a money game and the target in on our back, I mean wallet.
We are all crazy after all.
"shove a LS in it", nah, we enjoy paying 5 times the price.
But at least we can look at ourselves in the mirror.

I have paid for a lot of junk from China. But a CNC port job is never going to be one of them.
You would be buying something hopping the port job was not screwed up so bad it could not be fixed unless big money was spent.

Lol..... Maybe, I know we have one guy here "digitizing" Slowbird's dyno sheets.

I'm not sure why folks feel a company that can't get a valve job half-azzed right would be able to produce a decent CNC port job.

I traded a T 400 transmission, that I paid nothing for, for a RA IV engine that had a rod out through the block, I put $300 of 1980 money in them for extensive port work, and valve job, new springs keepers, retainers etc. The port work was done by a friend that worked for Ron Hutter on his flow bench, and is radical for the time period These heads were to go on a dirt track race car, that because life happens, never got built.
.
The 455 HO heads I paid $75 for them and put $75 of 1980 money in them for valve job, and to clean up the casting in the ports. The HO heads have about 2000 miles on them since the machine work was completed.

I don't expect to replace them for the same figure when buying new aluminum heads, and figuring in inflation, but the olds heads are more in line with the figure I'd be willing to pay. The RA IV heads have never been on an engine yet, and they'll probably be in my possessions when I die, either sitting in the garage, or on a street car. I have the choice of high, or low compression, round port heads.

The reason I have two sets of iron round ports for low dollar investments is because I waited for the right deal to come along, still waiting for the right deal on aluminum heads to come along, I can wait, or go without. I'm fully aware that the iron heads, even with the extensive port work are likely inferior to current aluminum heads, but for my purposes are just fine.

Wow what a 180 degree turn around.
Welcome aboard the Speedmaster gravey train, Never thought I would
here that from you. But I really do appreciate the information that
You've shard with us. Thanks very much.

GT

PS Please keep the info coming.

The speedmasters are cnc ported in Ontario Ca. They do everyone’s heads. Place changed hands and screwed up the whole cylinder head world.

I ended up buying the forward and direct hub kits with 300M input shaft, 300M intermediate shaft and the larger billet center support.
1500$, I will put up some picks when the stuff gets in. I have a month to decide if it all looks good. Will go over with fine tooth comb.
I never bought the sfi case. I would have to buy the sfi bellhousing and they are 400 bucks. Should have bought one when they were 200$.
I have plenty of T400 cases.
If I blow up a T400 its a couple grand. Not like blowing up a 15-20K engine. Soooooooo, I will give this stuff a shot.

I ordered a set of ported heads we will see. I put a unported set on my sons car I got in 2020 on Black Friday they seem to work well I didn’t dyno it ran out of time to make the Nats. In 21.

Curious how the CNC heads work out. I ended up holding off since I don’t have an immediate need, although the machine shop is testing my patience on the RAII heads.

I ordered a set for the heck of it. Maybe use them with a extra parts motor build. Will check them out on a buddy's flow bench also.

Keep us posted on the flow numbers you end up with would be interesting