SC&C shipping times
 

Is anyone else waiting an excessively long time for anything from Mark?

Placed my order on 8/19 was supposed to be 3-4 weeks until they shipped. Called 3 weeks ago and he reminded me it hadn't been 4 weeks yet. I have emailed requesting an update and haven't had a response in almost a week.

We need to fit the body back to the frame and my body man is almost 4 hours away. The weather is changing and honestly this is getting a bit too long for parts. I have built enough cars to know to expect a while on one-off items and custom built pieces, but I didn't think the parts are being specifically created just for me.

I realize everyone is busy, so am I between two businesses and a lot of employees so I get it. Anyhow, just frustrated.

I placed a order on 9-15, after 15 days I emailed them. Mark emailed back saying they just finished a batch & will be shipping out 10-1, still shows processing when I log in today

What did you order? I ordered the stage 3 with the Howe joints and new shocks

Chassis Brace

Just saw this today, i placed an order for upper control arms on July 17...……..still haven't gotten them, called today, said they should be here next week, im not holding my breath...…….when using a e mail, might as well be talking to yourself...……

Rich

Mark got back to me Friday and gave e some similar news. ....July 17? maybe I shouldn't complain!

Wow, that kind of delay simply isn't acceptable without the buyer being informed about the wait *before* ordering. It's a really good way to get your reputation as a company slammed by people online, and word gets around very quickly...

Well to Mark's credit he did give me a 3-4 week lead time before parts began to ship, the other issues sound like they were out of his control.....That said it it affected more than one of my parts. Shocks were on backorder for weeks, then an issue with the company that makes the A arms...IDK...

well worth the wait

Everybody has an issue, slow is Marks, typical engineer lol... You could of ordered the arms from SPC and the tall ball joints from Howe and put them together yourself..

If you order a box with this set up, order it through Lee yourself.. I used the three ear 800 Series box, 14:1 ratio with a 30 lb valve. I like a lot of road feel with a fast snap back from center..

I have the Stage III on my 69 el Camino and its pretty decent.. It's not a DSE but its pretty good... Get used to tightening those arms up every so often if you use your car a lot.. I still might go back to factory rubber control arms but use 1973-77 A body uppers with tall .9 ball joints to get the caster in the 5 degree range...

Good info thank you.... I have a quick ratio on it now but of the older design where it feels like too much assist. But it does work well. I'll likely upgrade at some point

I began looking at piecing it all together and felt like why commit to the brain damage, just order it all in one place. Well now I have my old parts back on, loaded the frame in the trailer last night so Monday I can bring it back to the body shop. I'm about ready to cancel the order and just go back to piecing it together...

suspension
 

Today is 3 month wait for me on the upper control arms, kind of wondering what you mean by slow...…….kind of went with Mark because of the on line support...…….but im wondering what kind of on line support you get when hes on the phone explaining why everyone is waiting 3-6 months to get what they ordered.

Don't mind waiting for quality stuff...……….but this seems a little extreme to me, you can get an engine built way faster than waiting for parts from Mark.

Im thinking of going as KGTO said, just cancel the order, and maybe going with the umi stuff which I can get in a few days...………

The more I think about this whole deal, the more I think im just out of $750

Rich

1) Called SPC today, there was no significant production setback, a small one, but orders were still going out. Definitely NOT the six week backlog Mark told me. SPC drop ships to the customer for SC&C they do not have record of my shipping info. It doesn't look like they were ordered yet.
2) Called Hellwig and sway bar # 55703 is available and Summit has it in stock I could have it in 3 days. Been over two weeks since Mark said it "shipped" still no tracking number or bar.
3) Called Chassiworks, shocks are on the shelf. Can either order through CW or SC&C.
4) Called Howe, the ball joints are special made for SC&C, I don't have a part number to give them and since they are made for Mark I can't buy them. I would likely have to use another Howe set or use the ones that come with the SPC arms.

Below is the last email from Mark, hasn't returned my last two emails asking for a tracking number. Emailed him this morning and left a message on his phone. I will dispute the charges and get the order refunded. I always want to give the benefit of doubt to someone in this business, I feel I am usually patient and understanding, but this is BS and furthermore, lies. If I am wrong on all of this somehow then SC&C should work on communicating with their customers. If the orders were never placed yet then customer's are providing cash flow for other customers. I've seen this happen before in business.


On Fri, Oct 4, 2019, 1:13 PM Sales scandc <sales@scandc.com> wrote:

Hi Ken,

So sorry for the long lead time, we`re working on it! Your sway bar has shipped, we`ll send tracking. The shocks were on back order for weeks but they just started shipping out back orders on them yesterday. Yours should be going out early next week. SPC parts are 80%, we`re just waiting on them to finish a batch of our lower A arms with the Howe ball joints installed. They had a big computer melt down (nasty virus?) about 2 months ago that shut their manufacturing facility in CO down for almost 6 weeks. They`ve been back up and running at 125% for a few weeks now but they`re still lagging a bit behind on some of the short run specialty parts. We just sent them more Howe ball joints for the lowers, they should have them done next week. Let us know if you would you like us to ship the rest of the SPC parts in the mean time or ship it all together when the LCAs are done?

--
Thanks, Mark Savitske
Savitske Classic & Custom
610-381-6100

While Mark is a nice guy and certainly very knowledgeable about how to make these cars handle properly, it appears that he doesn't have the organizational skills necessary to successfully manage his company's orders, he's too busy or both.

I dealt with this when I ordered my stage 2+ kit as well, but not to this extent. I purchased the bars separately from summit and the lower control arms I picked up at SPC since I'm only about 40 minutes away.

Like you I couldn't get in touch with Mark via phone as he's usually on it with other people. I also didn't receive responses to several e-mails. Unfortunately I had to resort to the threat of a chargeback. I contacted my bank to see if that was an option, when they stated it was, I gave a call and let him know that I needed some solid communication, or the parts on my doorstep, or I'd have to chargeback and use a competitor.

I had a call the next day, and parts shortly after.

When I decided to complete the setup with lower control arms, after finding out SPC is local to me, I was able to coordinate with SPC on it so I knew they had parts available. That forced Mark into having to put the order through right away. I picked them up a couple days later after SPC built the parts.

SPC is altering some of these parts a bit for Mark, but their uppers and lowers are readily available from summit for the F body and A body cars. The stage 2+ system uses a .9" tall ball joint which is available easily through ProForged. That joint is fine for street use and mild track use. If you're doing high speed stuff with R compound rubber, I wouldn't use it.

What this means is you can to an extent build mark's packages from off the shelf parts. The 2+ kit also comes with a tall tie-rod end to correct bump steer. If the car is primarily street, you may not notice it's absence.

That gives you some options at least to consider.

I've hesitated to comment in this thread, because I believe in letting an individual and a company figure out their issues without dragging anybody through the mud. But at the end of the day I also know what it's like to have money out of your pocket and getting the run around while you have no parts on hand.

I would still encourage you to correct this issue with Mark directly instead of airing it out in public, but I do think you're going to have to be a bit more forceful at this point to see action.

Jason,

Appreciate the response and I agree. I am not a person to normally take this to a public forum, I'm not one to stir the pot and I do not engage in drama. I have had contact (offline)from more than one individual regarding the matter who have had similar experiences and some who have been waiting longer than me. If someone is riding the fence on who to order from they should know it's an issue. The main complaint I have, aside from lack of communication, is that what he told me was going on isn't true. Stuff happens, I get it but telling me that the delays are someone else's fault is not an appropriate response. I have owned multiple businesses, so I am empathetic to those "perfect storms" with a customer were it seems everything goes wrong. I get it. Do something about it, maintain communication. Disclose it.

If I have to make threats to get parts shipped to me, I'll find another vendor to purchase from. That's not how you run a (good) business.

I got my Chassis Brace yesterday. 1 month after ordering. I had to order from them because they are the only ones I know that makes it. If you can order the parts from somebody else I would cancel the order since he is giving you the run around

To update-

Mark finally returned my call and after a discussion with him I chose to give him one last shot.
It still doesn't make sense, I can see if one company had a back order that held up the order, but for Chassisworks, SPC and Hellwig to all have had production issues is still odd to me. Plus he had to wait for the ball joints from Howe. I told him I would wait for the SPC items but there was no reason for him to spend a bunch of time trying to locate the sway bar when it was in stock at Summit and I could have it in 3 days. Same for the shocks from CW. He insisted that he complete the order for me, so I relented. He is just now sending the ball joints to SPC and they should drop ship to me so I may see them by next Friday if it goes as planned.

I've never heard of a product complaint from SC&C, and I know he is knowledgeable and respected in the industry, but the efficiency and communication is severely lacking.

I think he makes these in house, correct? That I could see taking some time if they are build to order. I was going to buy that same one but bought the BMR version because it was readily available. I do like the design of Marks with the triangulation, I think its a better piece.

Just to update, I bought the stage 2 plus upper a arms from Mark, ordered them on July 17...…….called after waiting 3 months, Mark said, sorry, they are on the way, well today I get the ball joints, no arms...…….as usual not answering the phone.

I was under the impression he sends the ball joints to SPC and they put them together, seems like I have to put them together. This is no way to run a company,

Rich

I have the Stage III but frankly, if I was to do it all over, I would save up for the Detroit Speed set up.. I love the way they have there caster adjustment..
https://www.detroitspeed.com/1964-19...ont-suspension

That is a great idea...………..I got the feeling im not ever gonna see these arms, I can see getting ripped off by some e bay fast talker, you would think with his business he would be a little more up front...……….im thinking if his lips are moving, he lying. lol

Rich

Did you get the lower arms as well? You're going to want those, at least at some point. The SPC arms will allow you to reach 5+ degrees of positive caster just in the uppers, but that's going to put the wheel pretty far aft in the wheel well and if you're running a wide tire, you may end up with some inner fender well scrub.

The lower arms are going to add 2* of positive caster inherently, by moving the ball join forward. This re-centers the spindle in the wheel well and allows you to run the caster you need without going crazy on the upper arms. So that's a highly recommended purchase and probably one I'd try to do direct through SPC, or have them give you the name of a company that's gonna actually get you the parts.

If you can't do those right away I'd keep your positive caster at or a bit below 3* initially. Then re-align when you can get the lowers in.

BTW, The stock 7/16" bolts will not work right with the SPC uppers. You need to drill everything out to 1/2. Then you will need SAE 6, 2" x 1/2" bolts and nuts.

Thanks Jason, I was gonna get the lower arms later, couldn"t afford it as of now, but after all this messing around, don't think I want to go thru Mark for the lowers, the only reason I bought from him, I liked the idea of tech support, but if his tech support is like his selling pratices im in big trouble.

Wonder if im just better off getting the umi upper & lowers arms and be done with the whole deal.

Rich

I'll bet if you put some time into it you could order the same parts he orders from Howe. I have one of there catalogs and it explains each product well.... The Howe ball joints are worth it. My steering is very responsive with a very fast snap back to center..

This is getting better & better by the minute, Mark said I wouldn't have to do any kind of drilling with these arms.

If anyone is interested in these arms, let me know, I"ll cut you a way better deal and no wait time compared to buying them from Mark.

Rich

Rich, are there any numbers from Howe on the ball joints. That way we could order straight from Howe..

389....the only numbers I can find on the howe joints are 13024, that's on both the upper & lower joints.

This whole deal has left a bad taste in my mouth, hope I can get my money back, im thinking its not gonna happen...…….don't know if I can dispute it with the credit card company 3 and a half months later, and I already paid them back.

Rich

Hey 389, that 13024 was on the rubber boot, called Howe, best he could figure out was the upper ball joint with a # 9 on the top stud, the housing # is 22339 and the stud # is 22389

The lower joint stud # is 22485 and the housing # is 22495.

With that said, he doesn't have any idea on how Mark matches these parts up, he"s not even sure these are the right numbers, he said the howe numbers are on the package they send Mark...………..which I don't have, just wrapped in bubble wrap.

Not sure how im gonna proceed...…….cant believe everyone is going thru this stuff with Mark.

Rich

When I spoke to Howe they cannot sell me the same joints he sells to Mark (proprietary agreement) and Mark's are beefier than the run of the mill Howe...

The SPC lowers should all be the same so you should be able to get them virtually anywhere....you should all SPC to confirm....

I was never told about drilling out the uppers, not a big deal for me but should be disclosed............

BTW the front sway bar showed up today lol

Oh, and Mark did confirm last week that SPC does install the Howe joints. I know this is what he said for certain as he gave me the choice to do it myself

My ball-joints came installed in the upper control arms when I received them. I opted for the NASCAR screw in type.

And yeah, if you want the howe joint that Mark markets with the system, you have to go through him. He developed them with howe so he gets license to sell them exclusively.

I'm not sure on the drilling. At least with my control arms both upper and lower on my 69 Firebird, they were true bolt on. No drilling, re-used stock hardware on the cross-shafts etc.

You can mimic the geometry change with the Pro-Forged .9" tall ball joint if you opt to back out of the purchase. The geometry will end up the same, but the Howe joint is superior in basically every way. Moves more freely and fluidly, has about 2x the beef behind it, shields the tall section of the joint, is coated for anti-corrosion and that's before you look at the metallurgical properties.

That said, I've run the Pro-Forged joints and they are fine. The only situation I wouldn't really put them through without frequent changes, or going to that better Howe joint would be high speed road course stuff on R compound tires. If all your doing is street driving, maybe some back-roads and auto-x, the pro-forged joints are fine.

Ken, got a message from Mark today, he had some personal issues that he wasn't able to get to me, said sending out the arms tomorrow, will call him to confirm this stuff.

Rounding out this new geometry are SC&C package specific SPC Performance adjustable tubular upper A arms, and ride height adjustable tubular lower A arms WITH THE HOWE TALL LOWER BALL JOINTS INSTALLED

I see this on the website but only for the stage 3 upper and lower arms, nothing like that on the stage 2 stuff that I can see.

But I see Jason got his installed beforehand, so who knows, all I know is I have the ball joints here with me. lol

Im thinking for the lowers the number is 94344, which I can get from summit or jegs, but they don't come with the ball joints installed...……..all this stuff is getting confusing.

Right now, not sure what im gonna do with the spc stuff, not sure I even want to fool around with the lowers...……….for what I do with the car, im thinking the umi uppers & lowers would be good enough for me...…...anyone running these. ??

Also thanks guys for taking the time out to help me on this.

Rich

UMI is an excellent company. Just don't go for any poly bushings. I was going to go with them but the salesman kept pushing poly on me so I went with Mark. They should know better, there in Pennsylvania, they know how badly poly binds up on these crazy steep roads we have here. If I was to do it all over, I would be talking with Detroit Speed.. I just love the way they have there caster adjustment. They are the only brand that slides the upper straight back to add caster..

I don't say this much but you can get 10 degrees positive caster using stock parts, just switch the upper control arms from side to side. I drove my car like that for 10,000 miles with zero issues.. Handled way better then factory..

Well all my parts arrived last week, confirmed by my office manager.. I've been on the east coast. Guess I should have everything now.

Rich
BMR makes some nice stuff too...and I'll let you know if all my balljoints are installed when I get back

I have BMR 2" lowering springs they are very nice springs and have my car sitting perfect..

This stuff can be such a headache. But I have to say, Mark is a good guy who has helped thousands of hobbyists out and never tried to get rich on our love for the GM A body... The last time I talked to him he was having some kind of health issues but I cant remember what it was..

Well hopefully it's nothing serious. He never mentioned anything.

I went with the BMR double adjustable lowers, and front and rear reinforcement bars

Well, just to add to this, got my arms the other day, wrong bushings in them, called Mark and said to send the bushing to him, I got the rubber ones, and he will send me the Delrin ones.

Not sure if this makes any difference one way or the other the way I drive, its only for the street.

Rich

So I am back home, opened up all the boxes and everything seems to be here. All looks beefy and quality parts. I guess the only thing I see odd is none of the ball joints were installed. My understanding was that is part of the wait time so that I didn't have to take them somewhere to have them pressed in. The uppers are the screw in style, but I don't have a press so I have to get that done, not the end of the world but I guess I could have gotten the arms anywhere and just ordered the joints from Mark...although I would have been waiting either way....

Who else had ball joints installed on arrival? Even the instructions state the screw in ones come installed and the lowers.

12 weeks of waiting. Glad its done.

Ended up with two set of front shocks , no rears.

I ordered a ball joint socket for the screw in ball joints. Got the lower ones pressed in.

I'm not sure why but after installing the spindles and tightening the castle nuts the hole isn't exposed for cotter pin for the upper joint. May have to reassemble.

Smells like someone is making excuses to cover up a cash flow problem....

I apparently missed this thread. Add me to the list of people waiting for no reason.

Great knowledgeable guy on the phone. No response after billing my card and waiting 2 monthes. 5 calls and 6 emails with no response.

I had to stay on him, yes very friendly and knowledgeable but really needs to work on the ability to get parts out, especially when they are already paid for. I know that he told me this spring he was shut down for a while (non-essential business) and maybe some delays are attributed to the other manufacturers being behind like many others. ...but, you have to set expectations with your customers now more than ever.

I appreciate that everyone needs to make a living, but I looked at his site a few years back didn't really see anything that compelled me to buy from him. It's not like everything he sells is a proprietary design with secret spring rates and sway bar tuning.

Great salesperson (and evidently engineer), but follow-through and consideration for your customers is as important. I really wanted to support him, but after a 3hr call with him to discuss suspension where I couldn't get a word in, decided to consider other options. Could only take so many stories about who he's developed products with and putting down competitors.

Needs to reconsider his business model.