The Chronicles of My 66 GTO
 

If you read the other thread, I picked up the car this past Saturday. Honestly, Ive crawled all over this car and haven't found any surprises. Below are some pics and maybe a few questions.
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps621595d1.jpg

Chrome all over the car looks a lot like this. Very good.
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps13ae28ac.jpg

Both grilles look good. Outside trim inst easily removed
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...pse6471bef.jpg

A lot of you asked about the wheels. Yea, I may want to get rod of them but IM getting use to the look. And the tires appear to be new. Trim rings dont have any curb rash and minimum scratches.
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps69ba28a2.jpg

While the interior needs help, the door panels look good. The center console, not so much. Same with the carpet (Ill order new carpet this week).
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps4a447631.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps5f479f40.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps623490a0.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps155f35c7.jpg

Dash insert is terrible and I cant stand the steering wheel. I have the original. I may just put it back in until I can figure out what I want to do.
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...pscc6033c0.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps8a8ef4c0.jpg

The boot. Is this factory? It looks like it would scratch the paint. This thing has seen better days too.
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...psbb90fd61.jpg

Under the hood.
 

Its leaking almost everything from everywhere. It doesnt run that great either I;m not sure what to do about it. Budget may be tight and there may not be enough cash for a rebuild. Its just ugly.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps2d94da27.jpg

I was told water pump is new last summer but it doesn't look like it. Fresh Anti freeze sits on top of it.
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...psa6c4df09.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps353e72e8.jpg

ID this carb?
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...psacde054f.jpg

PS pump looks original and both hoses are frail.
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...psa26a9ed0.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...psfbbf3a3e.jpg

A couple more before I put the car away Saturday.
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps7768ad92.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps41bfcc31.jpg

IIRC you said it's not the original engine. I see a 2bbl, is that a 326 in it? Just wondering. Leaks can be fixed if nothing is broken or cracked.

That grant steering wheel should have a darker finish on it. It should match the walnut veneer on the dash, then it wouldn't look so bad. Once you get used to it it has a better feel than the original sw. I've got the same sw in my GTO and it like it better than the skinny original. But that's me.

From what I can see, your boot looks to be original, or it looks like mine and it is suppose to be the original one. The carb is a Carter AFB. There should be a metal tag attached to it with numbers. Your power steering pump looks like the cap is correct as it looks to not be made of plastic. On your third picture, one of us has the wrong hood bumpers on the radiator core support. Mine are different. Yours look like what I have on my 69 GTO. I'm with you on the steering wheel, I would put the original one back on. I have the sports (fake wood) and really like it although it needs to be refinished. Very nice goat. Everything is an easy fix, to me that's half the fun of having them!

Clearly there's a 1964 intake and heads on your engine (heater hose on front water crossover), more than likely a complete 1964 389 from a big Pontiac.

A 1964 GTO 389 will have casting 9770716 on the center exhaust ports, big Pontiac 389 will have 9773345 heads.

Charles, the rubber hood bumper on Paul's core support looks like the correct ones. Part number RPF 172 for 1966 to 73. RPF 178, rubber bumpers with the adjustment studs.

I say a 2bbl... Carter... as it's hard to really tell from the angles. Intake looks different too.

It is a two barrel. Carter. The motor casting checks out at 9773155 date code E224 (May 22 1964). So it is a 389, but someone through a little carb on it at one time.

What about the casting number 9773155 on the distributor pad?

Let me start off by saying that you did well on this car. I am a sucker for the original color combinations that don't seem to be very popular choices now. I might be biased since I own a car with a gold interior. I don't see anything on that car that makes my stomach hurt at that price point. I'll chime in with my opinions.
I think the rally 1 wheels look great on there. Maybe a bit too much tire dressing for my liking but no big deal
I don't like the dash insert either, but that is easy to fix. I can't really tell about the dash wood because of the lighting, as to whether it is saveable or not.
Thats typical sun fading of the carpet that we all suffer.
I would send the original wheel to Platinum Al and have him restore it. That one is limited in damage and should be an easy resto.

I would replace the console with a nicer one. I would not try to replate that one.

I was working on the original boot cover of my '64 Old Blue, and had a couple broken clips. They did not look like that, but in my stash, I found I had 4 of those clips. Not sure what they come from, but they won't attach to my original boot. I had some reproduction clips that I also had, and they were made like the originals except the metal was too soft. I didn't have any sun that day, so I could'nt get my boot cover to stretch enough to snap down everywhere. I never use the cover on my other '64. I just don't like the way those clips want to scratch trim/paint. They probably changed the clip design from 64 to 66

Regarding the dirty engine, that just looks like dirt and grime that is collected from driving without constantly cleaning the engine. I think some degreaser, and a bristle brush would have you cleaned up in no time. I'd swap out the VC to chrome stockers. Agree that is a '64 top end. No surprise there. In regards to the engine running poorly, I'm going to bet you 10 hot wings that a simple tune up and fresh gas will solve your problems. Referrig back to my other comments, it looks like this car was driven, and enjoyed, but not necessarily tinkered with.

I hate red hoses with a passion!! You are missing the second reinforcing bracket for the alternator. Also possibly missing the bracket for the pcv hose. Not sure if they used the other bracket in conjunction with that short one that is bolted to the intake.

Its too bad you guys have to put cars away for the winter...

Enjoy the car and fix it while you drive it it's 47 years old we all have a few leaks at 47 .Are the headlight bezels orig mine have a dimpled center section so am wondering if mine are correct to bad you so far away would love to help you straighten out the kinks.

You had me very nervous. The casting is indeed 9770716. I just went to take a look.

Thanks Andre. Agreed on all accounts. Hoses, console and everything. Ill look into the brackets. I dont know what the other ones would look like though.
Very true and I could even go on to say a bit neglected. Platinum Al - contact information? I sent you an email yesterday by the way

Car looks great Paul.

Like others have said, change the hoses, hose clamps, plug wires with dated correct ones, spray the whole engine & compartment down with de-greaser & power wash it off. Replace the carpet if you want to, swap out the console & dash bezel when one pops up and have your steering wheel restored & replaced. Keep your eyes out for a correct 66 389 motor and rebuild/replace if when you feel like it.

All of this can be done while still driving & enjoying the car and isn't that what you bought it for? ;)

Very much my plan Chris.

I borrowed these pictures from ebay, but I have both of these and can send them to you. Platinum Al is a member on the board, and I think this is the easiest way to reach him.

I appreciate it Andre. Let me take a look at where they go first. If they were left off, Id like to see if there was a reason.

Ill contact Al via the board.

Glad to hear it's 389 Paul. For some reason it didn't look right.... probably because of the 2bbl and the intake. Sorry I made you nervous but I had to ask.

Has to be a 389 out of a full size Pontiac... Charles and I say so too. ;) BTW... my dad's 64 Star Chief had a 389 with a 2bbl Carter.

Looks good Paul. It's a balmy 34* in Chicago today. Perfect weather for cruising around with the top down.

GTOLVR66@aol.com is Platinum Al's email address. Great guy and have had him do several steering wheels for me. I have his address and phone number as well if needed.

Tim john---

Thanks for reminding me. Going to have him do my '66 wheel. The ring is perfect, just missing the woodgrain

Gary

Just curious as to why? The stamp on the distributed pad on the block is GTO and the heads are GTO. What makes you feel it's from a different car?

It appears that when someone put the GTO 389 in the car, for whatever reason they put an intake and carb from another Pontiac on it.

Thanks Bill. I saw your car this weekend at MCACN. Looked great.

Congrats on the very nice 66 GTO convertible.
I believe the carter AFB is a 4 bbl. I think i see 4 squirters. Unless my eyes are playing tricks again.

Sure looks like the intake on my '63 - 389, with the heater hose (minus the valve) entering the front instead of at the rear of the block. But the water pump looks like the later model 7 bolt, where my '63 is a 4 bolt. I think the housing is a little different also. All this is by memory which has started failing me lately ;)

You guys are confusing me... I don't see a 2bbl carb anywhere. I do see a Carter AFB, and pretty much everything else that looks like my '64 GTO's upper end. I however did not research the block casting to determine if it is '64 vintage.
If I remember correctly, '63 389 does not have the holes for a block mounted starter, and using one of those engines in a later model has additional challenges.

I see a Carter AFB 4bbl in the pics. Not a 2bbl. You could wrap the original wheel with a leather cover and 'run it' as is. Better than the Grant, and low $$. I would replace the PUI seat covers with Legendary or something that has real pleats. The flat looking PUI covers really stand out in an otherwise very nice looking, solid GTO ragtop. Congrats....you have a nice one to work with.

Paint the drums red Paul. '66 got red drums behind the Rally 1 wheels. The rusty drums distract from the nice wheels.
It's obvious at a glance that it's a '64 and earlier intake, and from what b-man posted about the casting number, it's a '64 GTO block also.
It is a 4bbl Carter, which would be correct for the engine.... So, what's the problem?
Sounds like a pretty rare and desirable engine to me, even though not as desirable on your car as it would be on a '64...I say RUN it man.

As another observation, and I can't see too well because of the picture, I'm not so sure about the lower mount of the alternator. Something seems amiss. I'm kind of wondering if it might be out of alignment, and that is why they could not install the second alternator strap. It appears to be a '66 PS setup, as the '64 has a cast iron mounting bracket.

Belt misalignment would contribute to the dirty nature of the engine compartment due to black belt dust covering everything.

As a note- my friend Rick ran 13.50's with his '66 Lemans convertible using a 64 389 motor I traded him that had 132,000 miles on it. No mods to the motor at all.

Here are better pics. This carb looks different than the Holley/EBrock carbs Im used to seeing.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...psf59f61d2.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps101a7287.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...psd9747f76.jpg

I did not know that. Cool info.

Im gonna make the call based on what Ive been able to figure out on the stampings that it is a 64 GTO 389 with matching heads.

And based on what everyone is saying here - a 4bbl. That thing just looks small.

1964 389 325 HP 79 J A 10.75 009 9770716 1-4 3649S GTO Option Block Casting # 9773155

Good observation. Heres a pick of the power steering pump. It does appear that there is dust mixed in the with oil on the pump just below the belt. BUT... if I run my finger along the edge of the belt, its clean and the belt is smooth in a place where I would expect wear.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps77b8a652.jpg

It is a seven bolt. And appears to be leaking. Any idea where from? You always see coolant at the top but never can tell where its from.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...psf51f07b7.jpg

It is hard to tell where coolant is leaking from up there. Anywhere related to the water crossover & its connections to the heads & the front cover often leak. Also the front cover to the block can leak. It does look like there is a new unpainted water pump & of course that could be leaking too. Sometimes you need to clean things up & catch it in the act to find the source or sources. Very nice car! I too like the color. My first '66 was a martinique bronze LeMans with a black vinyl top. The color looks great in a subtle sort of way.

If your carpet is just faded you could spray it with dye to bring the color back.

It was replaced at one time and cut poorly. It needs to go.

That's right. Lots of places up there it could be coming from. Clean it up and let it dry thoroughly and then start it up and let it come up to temp. Watch for it.
Another way, if you have a Stant pressure tester, is to use that. It's basically a small hand pump that screws onto the radiator cap fitting. You latch it on and pump it up to ~30lbs or so. Any leaks will show up. You can get one for 50 bucks or so on ebay or maybe borrow one from the local Auto Zone for free. They have lots of tools to lend out.

The most basic of ideas often go overlooked. Thanks Greg.

Nice car Paul, congrats! Does the heater work? It was COLD on Saturday :)
I agree with everyone that all the things you mention are minor fixes. I personally think its fun to decode all this kind of stuff and do some work on the old cars.

Based on the few clues I have to work with, I'm going to guess the replacement of the water pump was done haphazardly and not torqued to spec, failing to seal properly resulting in coolant weeping by the gasket over time. You can check the bolts but you probably want to r/r and paint at the same time.

I was thinking that might be possible too. The entire gasket area looks kind of wet as does the area behind the timing cover. Maybe the guy didn't use any sealant on the gasket. Either way the key is always to clean first and then watch.

Yes it does. It was 24 that morning. I didnt really notice it. I was too exited to drive it home. :) My wife thought for sure I was going to put the top down.

I was just looking at it in the garage. I agree. Maybe a half asked job. Ill run it this weekend and see what happens after I wipe it down. Ive been doing that anyway just to see what kind of shape different area of the engine bay are in.

My engine is a full size Pontiac motor, not the original born with engine. It had a two barrel Rochester carb on it when I bought it, of course I didn't pay the big money for it and I am not afraid to drive it like a few of my other cars. The first thing I did was change out the intake manifold to a 66 4bbl one and bought a Carter carb. I hear that I need to find a 66 GTO engine as a replacement, and that is the plan. I thought that the full size block and the GTO block are somewhat the same, and that in 66 there is not a partial vin under the code. I know that they are coded differently, why is that? Different cam? I know the intake and carb swap didn't really change the performance on my car much, although I haven't tuned it since the swap. The engine has 091 heads and I believe the GTO motor had 093 heads. I have been advised that changing heads would not show much of an improvement in performance not sure why.

To get to my question: if I buy a 66 GTO engine instead of putting more money (acquiring heads, cam, distributor etc...) into my 66 full size 389, is all that it buys me, the correct code on the block?

Hope this is not taken as high jacking your thread. I'm just trying to gain information on the advantages of putting a NOM car back to as close to factory, when the original motor is long gone :(
Thanks for any advise.

Except for the codes, the blocks are the same. Although I got lucky and my cars are matching numbers, I don't think that its worth spending the money to change out the motor. I'll probably make members mad, but in my opinion, as long as the engine looks original,and performs well, I'm good with it. Now, if you want to go fast, then its a different ball game.

Charles, I agree with Andre. Make the best of what you have. Unless you are after a trophy at a Pontiac event, the numbers won't matter to anyone looking at it. Besides, if you go after a 66 GTO engine you also have to worry about date codes, matching carb, etc..

1966 Rally One Rims & Red Drums
 

Paul,
Looks like you have a bit of other things to work on long before dealing with rims & tires.
IMO and as stated those R1 rims look great and would/could look better with the goo wiped off the rubber and the drums detailed as factory, it will make the Rims POP.

Add to that a Red upper body stripe and it would all pull together.

Best of luck and do what YOU wish and enjoy the hell out of her!

Were the red brake drums just in 66 or did there do that in 65, 67 and 68? Its cool and Ive never seen that.

I believe it was '66 only. My new '67 with Rally I's didn't have them.

Someday Id like to see the other GTO's you have Bil. I'm a stacked headlight guy through and through.