Speedmaster heads track results ?
 

I know there are several older threads on these affordable heads and I try to keep up on others posts related but after 2 years I still have not seen any track results or impressive performance done with any yet. Covid screwed up a lot of folks plans over the last year but come on the tracks were open. I have only seen a mild 400 something horsepower dyno thing that didn't seem to be anything a regular iron D port could do so that's why I am asking. Were halfway to maybe yet another big sale clearance in 6 months from now or so that's why. Thanks

I’m interested also….

By the time you get them the way you want them to be performance and reliability wise you would have 80-90% the money of a good E head. There is that lip just inside the intake port you have to deal with, costs money, time. If you can not get them without the pushrod holes making them a wide port is not cost effective.
America baby.

……or hp head, best bang for the buck. Just another option!


GTO George

Yes , I saw some had to do a good bit of work to improve certain things. This was more also of me just curious to see the results of those that did get them.

KRE is my plan still, I am only going to manage to do my new short block this summer maybe KRE swap next year. For me not to have to replace my D port
1.75 headers I lean towards some KRE 310 D ports with 74 cc chamber and that allows me to use my warrior intake (maxed out) or Torker II with about much issue.. Would want to be able to crack the 600+ hp mark .. My new solid roller I got 2 years ago to max out my 270 cfm D-port 16 heads that has not been tried yet is a Howards 261 269 108 .620 .620 so I will see how that does with new short block vs my old solid roller street cam ultradyne 242 252 112 .566 .566 using my #16 heads

Although I really have a boner for the as cast 330 cfm high ports in a 80 cc chamber it would be solid pump gas combo on 93 octane flat top 467 cid but then I have t get new round port headers and probably the recommended intake to match so it snow balls into a S ton of money above the D ports but heck thats a 700 hp set up too

Where did you get your info?
I have 2 sets on my bench right now and they look exactly like a Ehead out of the box.
In fact the castings looked better than the 3 sets of Eheads I have.

These heads will go 300CFM really easy with just a sand paper roll clean up, and a little work in the intake bowl. I am sure they will go much more but 300 was all I needed for the combo we are building.

A photo and info from this earlier thread?
Maybe Speed master is stepping up the attention to detail -or the pictured port and insert ledge was only on a few sets?

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...68#post6232368

Interesting, The sets I have do not have that step in the port.

Got it right here on PY.

I just dynoed my other motor with the speedmaster heads and they
matched my e-heads exactly, And the e-heads have 2.19 It and 1.77 ex.
The speedmasters still have the stock valves in them and less comp. and a
little less flow. I,ll get the pics up of the dyno sheets tomorrow or the next day.
So far I couldn't be happier. 624 hp-597trq the first one made 625.6 hp
and 634 trq. Not bad for a couple of pump gas motors.

GT

Hope this works It's been a while

GT

That's quite more like it , as they said they easily hit 300 cfm plus , how much work was done to your out of the box ?

Dyno Results
 

Can't remember how to post pics Dag Nab It

GT

I've got 2-3 time more money in the E-Heads just to match the power of the
Speedmaster heads. I'll be buying the SM heads from now on, I like the
quality A lot better.

GT.

I have a set I just put on a 455 bone stock out of the box. I was going to match everything up but figured with all haters I was gong to wait and post results with the untouched set. It’s a small hyd roller I put some solid rollers on because I had them. Plan is to have it in car for Norwalk.

Forgot this is a $1100 Black Friday set with a $100.00 Black Friday intake gasket matched my me to heads got my fingers crossed.

What is the whole combo?

OK, give up the actual number in $ you have in the E heads. CHINESE quality a LOT better ??
4th of July is this weekend dude.

Which American company did you give your money to? I thought you bought your e-heads second hand?

I have some KRE High Ports also, bought new from KRE.
America baby.
I would not trust a valve or a seat made in CHINA on my engine. Let alone the machine work installing the seat. Or the springs for that matter.
Might want to put a small flashlight under a Speedmaster seat and see if you can see some light.

Dyno Time
 

Hope this works this time

GT

More Dyno Time
 

OK here is the two dyno sheets, Read them and weep LOL

GT

Speedmaster Motor
 

[QUOTE=ponjohn;6261087]What is the whole combo?[/QUOT

OK-Stock valves new springs by Pac $275.00 at the time.
Allum rods fro a member here with bearings .040 SRP pistons
From a member here and rings and installer, Thanks guy's for
The rods and pistons. Polished factory N-crank, Solid roller cam
From another member here on the PY 638 lift 275-279 dur@50
Wensler tunnel-ram with two carter 750's MSD-ignition 34 degrees
Total timing.11:37:1 comp, Deep sump pan with a 60-pound pump
Double Roller chain+gears. I ported the heads myself, I spent two day's
On them. There is still a lot more in the heads to make more power.
Maybe later.

GT

Sorry , Both are blurry.

E-Heads
 

[QUOTE=blueghoast;6261303]

The E-Heads I bought new 2.19x5.3ish 1.77x5.245 I think.Fearra valves.
New Pac springs also around $275.00 plus the $1407 for the heads and
It was a $1000.00 for the porting Longer rocker studs I had the titaniam
Retainers
, Ross pistons pins and rings already had, Eagle Rods from PY member
Turned N-crank Victor intake with 1050 Dom and carb spacer. 83-91 jets
Solid Roller cam and lifters, Cam from a guy at Norwalk 626 lift 274-279dur
@50 60-pound oil pump with deep sump pan 12:98:1 comp.
Both motors have MSD distributors and same 2-inch headers 3.1/2 colecter
I believe thats it other tenn the total prices.

GT.

I'll see if I can take some better ones

GT.

Buddy's Motor
 

I almost forgot my buddy dynoed his motor the same day I did mine
His made 626 HP and 580 torqe, 13:03:1 comp E-85 and a vacume pump.
Hyd roller Hyd roller lifters 610 lift 264-266 dur@50 400 block 425 stroke
Crank the cheaper eagle rods Good file fit moly rings pistons look SRP
Pistons can't remember name, His heads flow 318 CFM and they are the
Speedmaster heads also, Stock valves MSD also. I get his dyno sheet on
Here to when I take to him He run's a victor and 4150 style carb.

GT.

New Dyno Pics
 

Should be able to see better this time.

GT

Both combos should be making more power. Mismatched parts. Cams are too big for what you get back. Not a good test, does not prove anything other than less money.
Need higher end efforts to get a good idea of their potential.
Sorry.

Im kinda of a made in the USA guy..........! :)


GTO George

More power from 300cfm?

I am not sure why you feel the need to tell everyone how bad their combo is and how they should be making more power.
He is just posting the results, not asking for opinions.

+1 Mike. Blueghoast thanks for taking the time to post your info. I, for one, appreciate it!

Murf


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I agree. Someone asked for results with SM heads. He didn’t ask for opinions.

I agree with this...I wish I was more familiar with who is who on this site...That would make it easier to know what their opinion is worth.

Not to be a smart ass, But---Lets see some of your motors out there
On pump gas hauling doing Drag Week hauling a trailer with all your
Goodies driving a thousand mile's a week and make it trough it all.
Yes with more porting and better intakes (mine are off the shelf)
And better carbs and maybe more cubic inch's, But both of these
Motors were built with used parts good part mind ya but still used.
Lets see what kind of power you can make. Since I've dynoed a
Couple motors I know it's not that easy to make 600+ HP.
Show us your dyno sheet when you do your motor and we;ll evaluate
The power you make and I will applaud or I will ride your ASS LOL

GT.

I agree Mike. Blueghoast thanks for taking the time to post your info. I, for one, appreciate it! And it is their project and just sharing the results.

Its OK to be a smart ass, I know how I come off sometimes. Some have a problem with me giving a opinion and that's fine. My point is you gave your opinion too. Yes you did base it on a build you have done. Your build is admittedly not a high end build, some used parts. Nothing wrong with that.

Thing is, if you can not make 600+ HP on pump gas(E85, 13-1, not really) .264 roller cam with 318cfm heads something is wrong. I mean, its going to unless the cam is 8 deg retarded.(buddys engine)
Your engine has two fours on a tunnel, 1400 cfm of carb with a .275 @ .050 cam and 11.37-1 CR. Its simply going to make 600+ HP unless something is very wrong. You did port them yourself, saving money.
Nothing wrong at all with the power you are making. Just not a high end enough build to give a strong "opinion" as to these Chinese heads are better than our USA Edelbrocks.
The 461 I am building at this moment will not see a pump. It will see weight, ET and MPH and go from there. No used parts, well thought out Sparred little expense. Cam I am using made 815 and 865 HP on pump gas 535 and 505 engines. And will post what it does when ironed out and folks can say what they want no problem.
To me I would need to see a "wow" engine before I would think those Speedmasters are any better. Have not yet I need that before I throw my country under the bus on this.

I think its safe to say no Speedmaster head will ever flow more and make more NA power than those E heads.
Unless someone wants to go through the time and expense of welding them up and re drilling pushrod holes. The Ti valves (can SM take 2.25 ") the epoxy, the max effort. Not happening.
Maybe I am wrong but I doubt we will ever see a Barton, Marcella or Gabby Speedmaster max effort head. I would trust their opinions on how much power, how good those heads are.

[QUOTE=blueghoast;6261309]This engine right here. Was it pump gas at 12.98 -1 CR ? The highest CR of any pump gas Pontiac I know of was 12.3 -1 and it had a very specific cam and aluminum rods.
Don't think any pump gas Pontiac will live long or make the power it should at 13-1 . Certainly not without the exact cam it needs and steel rods do not help.
Was this a E-85 engine ? If the heads were close there is some reason this engine did not make more power than your new SM engine is it had the right cam and fuel in it. Its over 1.5 more static CR. Significant enough you should see it.

If that cam is from who I think. We are still waiting for him to post a dyno which shows those HP numbers. I mean a dyno sheet where all of the numbers add up.

Stan

[QUOTE=Dragncar;6261800]Something I just noticed, The comp is 11:98:1 sorry bought dat.
You need to look at a set of the SM heads and evaluate them compared
To the E-Heads. There truly is a lot more meat in them for more air.
The valves and the seat are top quality they come with tall valves And
My E-Heads had one seat on the intake that far from being seated in place.
Had to take care of that. That could happen to any manufactuier though.
Can't remove all the push rod bulge in the E-Head but did with the SM's.
Point is before you drag them in the dirt take a good look at them
before you judge them, They really are a decent head I mean if I can
make power with less comp, smaller valves and a little less flow and just
two day's of port work and I'm no proffessional then I'm impresed by it.
So take a look and compair your self before you judge them.
I know sometime soon a good porter will do a set and maybe then will
know just what the potential they can make or not.

GT

Barton, Marcella, and Gabby put the effort into the eheads because there really wasnt much of a better choice...With Tigers, and all of the billet pieces available now, i'd say most have shifted their efforts.

Where is the STFU emogee? I am still looking for the post where the OP said he was building an all out high end race engine and sparing no expense? Hmmm. I have a set of the "Chinese" heads and they look great. Far cheaper than the out of the box E-heads and my purchase is simply for use on a street car, not a race engine.

Are these heads perfect out of the box? Are any of them? Any assembled aftermarket head should be broken down and examined. One reason I got the bare heads as I will prep/assemble them to my specs. Could they use some clean up port work? I think that depends on the user and his/her intent on the use of the heads. Stock cast iron heads can use some clean up port work to greatly improve them, but does everyone do that?

I did do a web search to see how many complaints and bad reviews there were on the Speedmaster heads - Pontiac and others. Really didn't find anything that would cause these heads to fall into the "junk" list or "don't waste your money." If they were crap, the complaints would be all over the assorted forums and no one would be buying them. But to the contrary, they got good overall reviews that did point out that these heads all could use some bowl clean-up/blending which was easily done with a sanding roll and not a lot of time involved.

But once again, it is so easy to arm chair your opinion and sound like an expert on heads when you have not even purchased, let alone worked with, a set of Speedmaster heads. When you actually purchase a set, do all your fancy work to them (or pay someone else as I am sure you do), and provide real world dyno numbers either supporting or negating their use on the ultimate build, otherwise STFU.

Thank you to the OP for sharing. Very encouraging and others who buy American will also be thanking you because it'll bring the cost down of those who had thought they had the market share on aftermarket aluminum Pontiac heads and were over pricing them.

I get it. Not much point in a max effort E or SM head these days. I would be interested in the bowl area of the SM heads. The Gabby heads I have, right under the seat the are is huge. It looks bigger than the valve . Kind of freaky looking.
I know the SM heads are lighter than the E heads. The material has to come from somewhere.
The High Ports seem heavy, thick. I can understand why they have been taken to 462 cfm.

[QUOTE=PontiacJim1959;6261816]Where is the STFU emogee? I am still looking for the post where the OP said he was building an all out high end race engine and sparing no expense? Hmmm. I have a set of the "Chinese" heads and they look great. Far cheaper than the out of the box E-heads and my purchase is simply for use on a street car, not a race engine.

Are these heads perfect out of the box? Are any of them? Any assembled aftermarket head should be broken down and examined. One reason I got the bare heads as I will prep/assemble them to my specs. Could they use some clean up port work? I think that depends on the user and his/her intent on the use of the heads. Stock cast iron heads can use some clean up port work to greatly improve them, but does everyone do that?

I did do a web search to see how many complaints and bad reviews there were on the Speedmaster heads - Pontiac and others. Really didn't find anything that would cause these heads to fall into the "junk" list or "don't waste your money." If they were crap, the complaints would be all over the assorted forums and no one would be buying them. But to the contrary, they got good overall reviews that did point out that these heads all could use some bowl clean-up/blending which was easily done with a sanding roll and not a lot of time involved.

But once again, it is so easy to arm chair your opinion and sound like an expert on heads when you have not even purchased, let alone worked with, a set of Speedmaster heads. When you actually purchase a set, do all your fancy work to them (or pay someone else as I am sure you do), and provide real world dyno numbers either supporting or negating their use on the ultimate build, otherwise STFU.

Thank you to the OP for sharing. Very encouraging and others who buy American will also be thanking you because it'll bring the cost down of those who had thought they had the market share on aftermarket aluminum Pontiac heads and were over pricing them.[/QUOTE

Emoji.s are for girls.

Chi Com heads TTFMFER !
The OP did say the quality was better than E heads. Cheap 400 $ heads better than the beast heads from the best made in America company ??
That will be the day.
I hope you build turns out great.

[QUOTE=blueghoast;6261812]What was the flow of the 2 heads ? Did yours have that little lip inside the intake port ? Seems like some have it and some don't. How big a valve can you fit in the SM head
E head will take a 2.25 and a High Port will take a 2.30".

[QUOTE=Dragncar;6261834]Iron heads can take a 2.19" valves and set class records. What is your point? Oh, you are in the "Bigger is Better" group of thinkers. Bet you drive that big sky high 4-wheel drive pickup and intimidate the drivers on the road because you have that small peni........... I digress.

You are one of those guys who baffles people with BS rather than dazzle them with brilliance. Most unfamiliar with Pontiacs, or any engine build, or the beginner who simply likes GTO's, might be swallowing your BS and taking your side ONLY because they don't have the knowledge/experience/info on the best way to build a strong HP/TQ engine whether it be street or race. But what those in the know who know about building an engine, Pontiac or otherwise, understand that a winning/solid engine is more about part matching and not singling out or focusing on 1 piece and forgetting about the others. So what, if a set of heads flow 400CFM's but then you have an intake that flows 240CFM, or you have a .700" lift roller cam and stock resized cast iron rods. Then there is matching all this to the drivetrain and planting to the pavement. It is not about the biggest budget, best selected parts on the market, and slapping it together........it is about selecting parts that work together so you don't have a turd of an engine.

Buy a set of SM heads and YOU tell us - then you can answer all these question and more and have facts in hand and not assumptions. Then once you have answered these questions, do some R&D and install them with YOUR assumed best parts build with matching cam and let's see how they perform. It would be a small investment on your behalf to know the truth an then you will really have a leg to stand on IF they really suck. I'll watch and follow your 12-part YouTube video.

I looked on YouTube hoping to find your All-American killer drag car and was disappointed. Would like you to point me to your car in action and your posted 1/4 mile times on the winners billboard? It may be up there, and used your screen name to do the search, but maybe you go by another screen name on YouTube?

Most of the time bigger is better, you also get what you pay for.


GTO George