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-   -   67 California Firebird Sprint engine swap (https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=865232)

camerjeff 03-14-2023 09:25 AM

67 California Firebird Sprint engine swap
 
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Well as some of you may know I purchased the Nice 67 California Sprint Firebird that was on BAT about 18 months ago, After fixing the inop rear brakes, I drove it around 10 hours before the engine went south. Not really a surprise as it did have 104,000 miles on it.
Last June on the way home from a friends Mod Meet, I noticed it was down on power, but still running well with over 35psi of oil pressure, and running at around 180F. So I continued to drive it home. On the exit rap of I-94, about 3 miles from my house it started smoking out the exhaust, looked blue. The car stalled at the light at the top of the ramp, and did not want to restart. When it did start it blew the cap off of the Oil fill tube! Denting the hood. And I limped it home smoking badly.
It took me about 6 months to get around to doing a compression check, and putting a boroscope down each of the cylinders. I found that the #6 plug was oil covered, the other 5 looked good, no coolant in the cylinders, but quite a bit of oil on the top of Pistons #4 & #6. The engine actually ran quite well, with no odd noises & the idle oil pressure was 25psi. So I let it warm up and did a Compression test. The resaults were #1-187, #2-183, #3-185, #4-125, #5-ZERO, #6-102. Rotted the engine to do a leak down test of the bad 3 cylinders, all would leak down in under 1 minute to 0psi, all the air was coming out of the oil fill tube. Looks like a rebuild, as I suspected.
So I traded a few spare parts to Rob at Woodland Motors for a good long block to put in the car while I rebuild the original engine. So last week I drained all the fluids. And started disconnecting things. Removed the Hood Tack and sent out for repair, removed the hood and drive shaft.
As you can see fro the before engine compartment picture there is a lot more going on under the hood than I am used to. Most of the 20 odd Sprint cars I have owned had power steering, and 1 had Power steering & A/C, but this is the 1st A.I.R equipped sprint I have owned, and it also has A/C & Power steering.
As you can see the long block needs a good cleaning & rattle can paint in the correct color. And the underside of the car is solid and original.

camerjeff 03-14-2023 10:07 AM

Things I learned about the car
 
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Upon disassembly I learned a couple of things about just how odd an A.I.R. equipped sprint are.
(1) As it has power steering and A.I.R. The rear Power steering pump brace is different than any other one I have seen. It has a long arm on it that attaches to the back of the air pump.
(2) It has both a Distributor Vacuum advance hard line that is routed along the back of the engine to the Distributor, but also a Vacuum Retard hard line that is routed the front of the engine under the thermostat bypass hose. I have only seen that line on a couple of core engine I purchased and sold off in the past, and those were both 1968 1bbl engines.
I also learned that the cheap tinny sounding exhaust pipe was welded onto the stock Y pipe, That is going to be a PITA I was not expecting. The plan is to pull & reuse the original engines E-cam and cover if all the lobes are in good shape, also reuse the intake/exhaust manifolds & Carb, and I will also have to swap the Dist, and fuel pump as they are different on a A.I.R. and A/C car.
So I will have a good used 4bbl Fuel pump for sale soon, along with most of my spare 250 engine parts.
If the original E-Cam is worn, I have both a good used H-Cam with followers & a NOS E-Cam in the parts stash.

camerjeff 03-14-2023 10:15 AM

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Finally just some underside pictures, you can see the welded on exhaust pipe to the Y-Pipe. While on the lift I decided to change out the rear end oil. The used oil came out like it was original to the car. Also not that as a A/C equipped car, it as 3.23 rear gears in place of the standard non A/C gear ratio of 3.55.
Also I have no Idea why the oil pan has been repainted in the incorrect shade of GM Blue.

Jeff Hamlin 03-14-2023 06:57 PM

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Jeff,
Thanks for starting a project post.
Love to see and learn about these things.

I see what you are saying about the support brackets, the other thing that jumped out at me was the long tube/pipe spacer.

Can't tell but looks like the PS pulley is a three-groove pulley, Is it?

Not to be a PITA but as you remove A.I.R.-related parts would you mind photographing the parts as well as any/all part numbers?

I'd love to add them to my files.

Thanks.

camerjeff 03-15-2023 11:10 AM

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Jeff, good eye, I can't believe I did not notice that the power steering pulley was a 3 groove pulley! Having never seen a 3 groove version I never thought to look for it. Must be a A.I.R with power steering & A/C only set up.
I can't imagine how hard it would be to find a replacement, as you are aware even finding a 2 groove version is very very hard!
It is a cast 3 groove pulley, as seen in the close ups I took this morning. And of course I can post any P/N's I find during the project. I see the pulley has what looks like a P/N cast into the lower of the 3 spokes in the picture posted below.

besserspat 03-15-2023 12:40 PM

man I love those straight sixes, so refreshing !

Jeff Hamlin 03-16-2023 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camerjeff (Post 6414540)
Jeff, good eye, I can't believe I did not notice that the power steering pulley was a 3 groove pulley! Having never seen a 3 groove version I never thought to look for it. Must be a A.I.R with power steering & A/C only set up.
I can't imagine how hard it would be to find a replacement, as you are aware even finding a 2 groove version is very very hard!
It is a cast 3 groove pulley, as seen in the close ups I took this morning. And of course I can post any P/N's I find during the project. I see the pulley has what looks like a P/N cast into the lower of the 3 spokes in the picture posted below.

Wow, that is a big chunk of casting for sure.

Thanks for sharing this progress.

Jeff Hamlin 03-16-2023 06:23 AM

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I've had this on file forever and not once did I take note of the 3-Groove Pulley

camerjeff 03-20-2023 09:47 AM

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Interesting Jeff, it is easy to overlook the one 3-groove pulley on the list. I actually had to read thru it 3 times to find it!

Some slow progress this weekend, due to both cold temps here in S/E MI, & my back starting to complain a bit more than usual. But 1st just some general engine compartment views to show the progress. That and I spent the better part of 3 hours removing the A.I.R hose off the check valve without damaging either part.

Note I really like working on a rust free vehicle! Even with over 100,000 miles on it things still just come apart as they were intended to.

1st picture shows the condition at the start of the weekend

2nd is the status last evening, So in addition to removing the Intake/Exhaust manifolds, the starter and Bell Housing dust cover are removed, the Radiator in removed, the entire muffler shop exhaust system in removed, and the rear axle oil is drained. The Starter is also removed, nice to see it still has the small front mounting bracket!

As a Bonus I think I found the rattle that I was hearing when going over bumps! The exhaust hangar just in front of the rear axle was hanging loose, both bolt are gone.

camerjeff 03-20-2023 09:57 AM

A.I.R System & Parts
 
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So here are some pictures of the Smog pump system, I never removed a manifold set that had intact tubes in the exhaust ports before! I did have a 1bbl exhaust manifold years ago that had the remains of the tubes in it, but they must have been corroded almost completely as they only protruded slightly into the ports.
These tubes must get very close to the exhaust valves! Also I found a small stainless steel shim on the #1 exhaust port. Heat shield? For the power steering pump bracket? This car had a composite Intake/Exhaust gasket. hard to tell if it was original or not.

camerjeff 03-20-2023 10:01 AM

Smog pump Brackets
 
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Pictures of the smog pump brackets front and rear, no P/N's on them.

camerjeff 03-20-2023 10:09 AM

Flex Fan
 
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I do not know if the 7 bladed Flex fan is original or not. My 66 Lemans Sprint with A/C used a 7 Bladed fan that was longer. No P.N's on the fan either just the word FRONT on the front face of the hub.
The 3rd picture is of the spring mounted on the exhaust manifold butterfly valve. I don't think it is original as all my past cars that still had one were more of a "clock" spring type. Also it is not working, the valve was jammed into the closed position forcing all of the front 3 cylinders exhaust gasses into the intake manifold heat riser. Going to have to fix that. The good news is the small post that keeps the spring tension is the best one I have ever seen, they are usually corroded away.

camerjeff 03-20-2023 10:19 AM

Smog pump
 
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Some pictures of the smog pump & P.N's for the pump & Pulley. The pump has a small crack on the housing in an area that will not effect performance. It turns freely with no binding or noise. The crack is in the area that captures the upper mounting bolt nuts, it keeps them from turning when tightening or loosening the bolts.

camerjeff 03-20-2023 10:28 AM

Power Steering Pully P/N & Bell Housing Dust cover
 
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My 3 groove power steering pulley P/N seems to agree with the 67 pulley P/N chart you posted

9788972

I will attempt to weight the pulley just for kicks (If I can remove it without to much trouble)

Also the manual transmission dust cover is also the nicest one I have ever seen. Even the one on my old 69 California Sprint FB was somewhat mangled. (Note the 69 Bird was missing the entire A.I.R. system when I bought it in CA back in the early 1990's.

camerjeff 03-20-2023 10:39 AM

Rear axle
 
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As I was planning to replace the exhaust the cheap tinny sounding muffler shop exhaust system with new Waldron system I bought, and the fact that the muffler shop welded the exhaust pipe to the factory Y pipe, I decided to cut it off.
And while it was out of the way I decided to pull the axle rear cover to both inspect the gears and change the gear oil of unknown age. I think it was a smart move as the oil just barely drained out, and there was a large sludge build up at the bottom of the center section. Note this is a factory 3.23 Posi rear axle.
Also I documented what seem to be yellow inspection (or at least ID marks) both around the axle fill plug & under the drivers side spring perch.
That's all for now, I hope to get the engine/trans pulled this week, and start some clean up & painting.

Jeff Hamlin 03-20-2023 06:27 PM

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Jeff these pictures are great.
I have made a dedicated file on this A.I.R. system.

The Flex fan may be correct.
I've seen 5-blade flex.
The 5-blade was more common on the '68-'69 OHCs
but I do have images and notes of a 7-blade for HD cooling used on FB.
Just can't confirm this.

The heat gate spring/cover is correct.
I parted a '67 last year and it had that shield.
The "Clock" spring is under the shield.
The small wire clip on the outside is an Anti Rattle Spring.
I still need to find a replacement for that.

camerjeff 03-21-2023 08:44 AM

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Thanks Jeff, My fan looks like the one you posted, so it probably is stock. To bad there is no P/N on it to verify. The only non stock items I have found on the car so far are
1-rear sway bar
2-Hurst Shifter
3-Gas shocks
4-CD ignition system
There are a few replacement items also like the exhaust and the radiator & hoses, Dist caps and wires. But for the most part it is the most stock Sprint I have ever owned. And I have owned 22 of them from 1976.

Here are a few more pictures. I got a little bit done yesterday, removed the Accessory housing, water pump, timing belt, and cam cover. and I also started the "Flint Michigan" engine rebuild of the good long block I got from Rob. That means I started cleaning the engine for a fresh coat of Pontiac Metallic Blue paint from a rattle can! If all goes well I should get the engine & Trans out on Wednesday

Picture 1 is verification of a correct timing belt B011
Picture 2 shows oil dripping out of the #5 & #6 intake ports. Looks like I have leaky intak valve seals
Picture 3 shows the cam, inspected and there is no excessive wear, I don't know what cam it is yet so I will post the marking on it after I remove the belt sprocket.
Picture 4 shows the cam followers, also near excessive wear, so as long as the cam is either an E, WE, or H cam it will be going on the new to me long block.
Picture 5 is a very bad picture of the Air Conditioning fuel pump with the vapor return port.

camerjeff 03-21-2023 08:48 AM

Distributor
 
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Just a few more today. This time showing the Distributor with both vacuum advance and retard ports, P/N, & a couple of shots of the Vacuum retard hard line that goes under the thermostat bypass hose and the back of the timing belt cover.

camerjeff 03-24-2023 12:58 PM

Fast Idle Solenoid
 
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Just a little progress this week, I fought with the clutch Z-Bar for about 2 hours yesterday, I just don't remember the frame side nut being so difficult to access on my 69 Bird. Removed the shifter lever, and undid the motor mount & trans mount, so gravity is holding the engine in place. Also I forgot to pull the coolant drain plug from the block before pulling the water pump. Oops made a bigger mess than needed. I am getting old I think.
Forgot to post the P/N for the A/C High Idle Solenoid. I decided to remove the solenoid from the carb, I didn't want to rist breaking the 50 year old plastic connectors if I wasn't changing the solenoid.

Jeff Hamlin 03-29-2023 06:15 AM

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While thumbing through the '67 Service Manual,
I couldn't help but notice the obvious design change for the rear pump(s) bracket.
Guess they realized quickly that it needed to be beefier :)

camerjeff 03-29-2023 07:13 AM

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That is interesting Jeff, So it looks like there are 2 A.I.R rear brackets. My car is a 4th week of June 67 car, so very late production 67.

Well believe it or not the engine and trans are out as of yesterday afternoon. The only hiccup was the plug for the rear sea of the Saginaw 4-speed popped out during the removal spilling the used 90w oil on the shop floor, stinking up the shop, and laughing at the oil dry now floating around on top of it! I could not drain the transmission as this Saginaw 4-speed does not have a drain plug hole drilled or tapped. UGH

Today I will drop off the battery tray, and A.I.R. brackets to the powder coater today.

I will verify what version of the Saginaw 4-speed I have, other work accomplished, I cleaned out the rear axle oil, & refilled, so after this project is done, the only fluid left to change will be the front brake fluid.

Hokie1984 03-29-2023 07:50 PM

There has been some debate about the 7 bladed flex fans, but I believe what you have is stock for an AC car. My Sprint is also late 67 {April build) and has the same fan. Not sure if you know this but you can drain most of the oil from a Saginaw by pulling the bottom bolt holding the tail housing.

camerjeff 03-29-2023 07:51 PM

I did not know that wish I did before this job! Thanks for the tip

Hokie1984 03-29-2023 07:56 PM

LOL, I didn’t know about it until a few years ago after spilling a lot of oil over the years.

Cammer-6 04-02-2023 12:00 PM

how many grooves in the input shaft? that tells ratio

camerjeff 04-03-2023 12:20 PM

I will find out later this week, when I get back home, did not have time to pull it before going out of town for work.

Jeff Hamlin 04-05-2023 06:12 AM

IDLE CONTROL SWITCH;
 
Good move getting the switch off and out of the way.
I have not seen any in a very long time.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...7a3b8d71_c.jpg

camerjeff 04-05-2023 07:18 PM

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Looks to be a 3.11 1st gear Saginaw 2 rings on the input shaft. Also found one of the upper tail housing bolts is missing, good thing I didn't scrap the 3-speed Saginaw I have had sitting under the work bench last fall. I think it will be donating a bolt to the Firebird!
The only reason I didn't scrap it last fall was I was to lazy to take the bell housing off of it! Some times it pays to be lazy. It is a column Shift transmission so I do not have any use for it. I scrapped 2 floor shift 3-speeds at the time.

Hokie1984 04-06-2023 08:22 AM

You should pull the tail shaft off the 3 speeds before scrapping. At the very least you could sell that piece. It took me over a year to find one when I did my 4 speed conversion in my Sprint.

Cammer-6 04-06-2023 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Hamlin (Post 6418741)
Good move getting the switch off and out of the way.
I have not seen any in a very long time.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...7a3b8d71_c.jpg

now I know where all those NOS A/C idle controls went..Between you and Fred.
I found a source of some made for Mopar,Port is in a different location from what I remember. I bought all they had.Odd but also have an NOS Y pipe with a MOPAR sticker on it.

Cammer-6 04-06-2023 01:14 PM

save those 3 speed Saggys
share many parts with the 4 speed.
One car Im running a Vega trans
IIRC its a 3.50

Jeff Hamlin 04-07-2023 06:51 AM

GARY, How the hell are you man?

Long Long Time, hope all is well!

camerjeff 04-07-2023 12:35 PM

X2 Gary, glad to see you still here!

As for the Saginaw 3-speeds I scraped, I tried to give them away locally, no one wanted them, only a scrapper responded to my CL ad, and I decided to get the $$$ for them. I will take off the tail shaft housing and bellhousing off the last one I have, it came from a very rusty 66 Tempest 1bbl many years ago. Forgot I had it.
Jeff you ended up with the dust cover off of it!

camerjeff 04-10-2024 09:24 PM

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Finally got a chance lately to get back to work on this, Cleaned and Gave the replacement engine a Flint rattle can overhaul. Cleaned the bell housing and A/C compressor brackets.

Today I Cleaned the Saginaw 4-speed, and found a couple things I found interesting. I never knew the was a difference between the Transmission rear mount, and the counter weight mount. Both of the originals are in good shape. and the the P/N's are visible. Also the rubber on the counter weight mount has "Blue" cast into the rubber. Strange that they have the same P/N but there are obvious differences.

First Picture is of the dirty Transmission with the aftermarket Hurst shifter
2nd pic shows the differences in the mounts
3rd pic is of the rear mount P/N 9788007
4th pic is the weight mount P/N 978807 Blue with Steel
The last picture is with a coat of Cast Iron paint applied.

camerjeff 04-10-2024 09:32 PM

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I also found a Paint Stamp that I think is Yellow FH Stamped upside down on the passenger side of the trans. Any opinions on if I am correct that it is FH?

Cammer-6 04-11-2024 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Hamlin (Post 6418741)
Good move getting the switch off and out of the way.
I have not seen any in a very long time.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...7a3b8d71_c.jpg

I found some NOS vacuum A/C speed up switches that were MOPAR.
Only difference was the clocking of the vacuum port. I have no clue what application those are for.
Another oddity is the NOS MOPAR exhaust Y pipes with a MOPAR tag.
Agree with J.R. on the hat for exhaust bimetallic spring.
Fred may be a good source for pics of that as he snagged an NOS manifold many yrs ago.
Check the fan on the spines of the flex blades for stamped numbers.
I have an NOS 5 blade flex and thats where #s are..
My 67 OEM gasket for intake/exhaust was composite also and had part# stamped as well as McCord. Sorry for not responding sooner.

Cammer-6 04-11-2024 02:08 PM

I believe FH is correct
I had a rubber stamp made and used the yellow paint out of my ball point parts paint marker
no need to be exact on placement,its an assembly line item

Cammer-6 04-11-2024 05:38 PM

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I forgot to mention that Ive been running a 67 A I R breather assembly on mine so I could convert to the 68 CCV.
That means there are at least 2 of these hens teeth left

camerjeff 04-12-2024 12:40 PM

Gary, great to see another 67 AIR air cleaner survived! You don't still happen to have the FH stamp you had made do you? I was thinking of having one made with 1" tall 1/2" wide letters but if you still have yours I could borrow or buy it off of you.

TheSilverBuick 04-12-2024 03:18 PM

Quite the unique tear down!

Cammer-6 04-13-2024 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camerjeff (Post 6497672)
Gary, great to see another 67 AIR air cleaner survived! You don't still happen to have the FH stamp you had made do you? I was thinking of having one made with 1" tall 1/2" wide letters but if you still have yours I could borrow or buy it off of you.

Im sure I do
will PM you when its found

Another thing that comes to mind was a bright pink "spot"
IIRC I duplicated with spray paint as it looked rather line assembly applied.

Cammer-6 04-13-2024 10:09 AM

how good is your label on air cleaner?
might be time to repop it.

camerjeff 04-14-2024 01:01 PM

Thanks Gary, I will dig out my aircleaner and check the label's condition

Cammer-6 04-14-2024 07:47 PM

mine has 2 labels one on top of the other.
either the wrong one was put on first or it was upside down

camerjeff 04-17-2024 06:06 PM

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Here is my Placard Gary not perfect by any means. Plus I added picutes of my battery tray that just came back from the powder coaters in the other tread

Cammer-6 04-18-2024 07:25 AM

that should be good enough to replicate.

Mines in about same shape but is double layered

Many,many years ago I got into a discussion with Jim Osborn on the color of the metallic print.
I say its gold,Jim said"golds too messy,its silver"
I have an NOS 68-9 and its gold. Im pretty sure the color fades with age.

north 04-22-2024 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camerjeff (Post 6415419)
(Note the 69 Bird was missing the entire A.I.R. system when I bought it in CA back in the early 1990's.

Did 69 OHC's still have California emmisions? NO 69 V8 Pontiac's had any California specific smog stuff installed.

camerjeff 04-23-2024 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by north (Post 6499460)
Did 69 OHC's still have California emmisions? NO 69 V8 Pontiac's had any California specific smog stuff installed.

North you may be correct that the 69's didn't use a smog pump. I remember the exhaust manifold on my 69 had the A.I.R holes drilled in it, but that they where capped off. I just assumed it originally had a pump.


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