Welting...My Latest Curiosity
 

Here is something I have been playing with and I wanted to see if any of you had any comments and to gauge the level of interest in possibly reproducing this component in the correct colors. In the picture the short piece of welting is an original sample provided by Steve at MMM. The longer piece is a pre-production sample of the latest material I am testing.

The material is a high quality exterior grade polymer that is color matched to the GM paint code and color for Buccaneer Red. Because every polymer reacts differently to extrusion in regards to gloss and dimensional profile. The purpose of this sample was to verify color and gloss. I am going to have to do a little tooling re-work to correct for variances in dimensional profile. I think those changes will possibly also enhance the level of gloss somewhat. Don't get me wrong the gloss is very close to the original sample.

I am sure someone will want to know why I chose Red to do first. Primarily because I have a 73 Buccaneer Red TA that already has the paint peeling off of the Gray welting. and secondly, red for some reason is a difficult color to match well, or so I have been led to believe. My questions are as follows:

Would this part be of interest and if so what other colors do you think would be viable? (Low production colors might be very expensive, Like a kit to do one car could be as much as $150.00). That still might be less expensive that the body and paint costs to paint the currently available grey profile and it would be the correct color and profile through and through.

Would there be interest in Brewster green, Admiralty Blue, etc. The one year colors?

Anyway, just really interested in what you think.

James

I think I'd be interested. Truthfully, $150 is at the extreme end of what I'd consider, so hopefully you could get some better pricing if you do pursue this. At some point I've contacted a few plastic manufactures to see if they had something that would match and I didn't have much luck. I'd be looking for Cameo White, but if you get the ball rolling with red I'm sure you'd be able to judge the popularity quickly. Good luck!

My best guess right now would be that the $150.00 price would be for the low production colors. Cameo White, because of a greater potential market for it due to how many years and number of cars sold would be much less.

thanks for your input.

James

Definite interest here. Buc Red and Cameo White would give the most color coverage.

Here's the real issue with the welting out there today. It is not color, it is hardness. The grey repro stuff is made of a hard durometer, plastic material instead of soft, pliable latex. That is why the repro stuff does not fit worth a damn.

So if you're going to embark on this project, make them out of extruded latex (the original material was made out of the same stuff that is used on modern refrigerators door seals) and you will have everyone running to you to buy a set.

Hello Steve,

Thanks for jumping in. I have had the original material analyzed (Infrared Spectroscopy) for compound as well as hardness(durometer). The material that I am looking at is extremely close to the original in both aspects. The best part is it is sourced right here in the USA! Unfortunately, that is also one of the issues with cost.

Thank you all for your input.

James

Can the new stuff you're considering having made be painted? Lets say someone bought the white could it be painted and hold? I repainted my originals and they held 25 years with no problems. This time I'm replacing the welting. Bought the gray stuff but I'm not impressed with it. Since my car's not a stock red the stock colored one wouldn't match.

If it fit well and was the correct color, I don't think $150.00 is unreasonable for all colors.

I would be interested in Lucy Blue!

Stan

If you go forward with this, I'd start with buc red, cam white, lucy blue and black. I think those colors would sell well in the $100 -125 range.

I'd buy the red, because my painted grey ones will likely start chipping of as soon as I start driving and washing the car with any great frequency.

While I'd want to paint to match your red, I think I might try buc red welting on your red flare and see how off it looked on the car? Might be fine?

I provided James with the NOS piece and have been looking at his repo samples throughout this process. My opinion is this. The latest sample is excellent. It's going to cheaper for us to buy this welting than buy the gray repo stuff. Cost for color, flattener, flex agent and adhesion promoter plus work hours spent adds up to more than buying James' welting molded in color. Also the gray welting isn't the type of material that our paint products really 'bite into' so it's fragile to work with and color can come off, especially when we attach the staples at the top of the wheel spoilers.

Me too

welting
 

Price sounds reasonable to me.

I'm in on cameo white

I'd take a set in both Lucy Blue and Polar White.

And if you've ever seen original welting on a Lucerne blue car, it's not Lucerne blue. It is close, but not metallic, but sort of a robin's egg blue.

Thanks everyone for your responses. Lucern blue and silver will probably both be a challenge, but I think they can be done. I wanted to look at the higher volume colors first. Buc red, cameo white, starlight black, and silver. Because of minimum run quantities of this type of product, those are the ones that could probably be done without losing your shirt.

Thanks, james

Great work - a real contribution to the hobby. Given the surge in popularity of the late second gen SE cars, you might also consider Solar Gold.

I am in for a set for a Buccaneer red car. Keep us posted. and $125-$150 is ok to me.

In for: cameo white, lucerne blue, brewster green, starlight black.
if cant do brewster green, another set of starlight black.

I'm in on multiple blue and white sets

I'm in for a blue set.

Stan

Buc.Red here!

Buc Red is definitely a go simply because I have gone so far with it, it is just a challenge to me to finish the project.

Bob, thanks for suggesting Solar Gold, I just completely blanked out on that one and I think it would qualify as a higher production type of color.

If this works out, I think I want to do as many colors as are practical to run. Brewster Green is a favorite of mine and I have always wanted one. I actaully have already made the color sample for it.

Thanks,

James

Lucerne Blue for me please!

A polar white ['70] set would be perfect timing for me,finishing up painting is this summers project and the welting was going to be a pain !

Great quality parts made here, that do NOT need to be replaced after 3 days of sunshine Will be worth it, and word of mouth will travel fast.

Sheen
 

If Steve's NOS welting sample is unpainted try to ensure the sheen matches as well.

With Steve's help, I had my 73' Brewster green welting dyed with a penetrative semi-gloss alcohol dye. It was used for interior parts, but adhered well and held up nicely.

I saw way too many cars with overly glossy welting, probably a result of clear-coating the whole car/fender while welting was installed on the flares.

I am currently dealing with the frustration of applying the reproduction welting. I would be interested in cameo white and I think the $150 dollar price range is fair. Thanks for looking into this. Much needed.

I'll be needing a Brewster Green set soon if you make them.

I'd be in for Buccaneer Red and possibly Cameo White.

$150 is not an issue.

Thanks for your efforts!

Yes Lucerne Blue

Welting
 

I am in for a set of Buc red and Cameo white. This is great. thanks for the effort. Rick

Everybody,

Thanks for your input. I think the way to go at this point is to finish the project with the Buc Red. That should not take too long, maybe 2 to 3 weeks. Once that is done and I'm happy with the product, I will make it available some how and those who want the red can provide feedback on it when they get it and put it on their cars.

How does that sound to all of you?

James

It's a perfectly logical next step. Good luck, and put me down for a set of buc red.

Again, thanks for all your effort and work on this contribution to the hobby.

I'm down for a set of Cameo white. Mine are in terrible shape.

A quick Update. I have authorized the revision to the tooling to handle the new material. Unfortunately I am being told that it will take 6 to 8 weeks for the revisions to be made and then a week or so to test it again with the material. Production to follow on the approval of the sample.

As soon as I have something I will let you know.

Thanks for your patience,

James

Nice work, James. If they turn out nice, they should sell like hotcakes!

My car has waited 44 years, 6-8 weeks is fine.

price is easy for the product
 

150.00 a set?
I would pay way more just for the hassel reduction of painting these. They have to be sanded and flex primed then painted to stick. Very tedious work to do it right. Then they are still not the correct look of originals.

Put me down for 3 white and 2 lucy blue.

Good work on a much needed part.

welting
 

Depending on colors that will be available, put me down for:
Lucy blue, black, cameo or polar, silver.

I think you'd have plenty of takers for Lucerne and Polar, as plenty of guys here have them. I need a set of each.

I'm in for Cameo White

Here's a little update....

The tooling modification has been completed and the first sample run delivered. It looks pretty good to me. I have one dimension that varied more than I wanted, but it is an internal dimension and since according to Steve at MMM, these get attached with an adhesive and a staple, it may not be a big deal. I have sent a sample up to Steve to determine if this will be a problem or not.

In the photo below the original sample is on the left and the new sample is on the right. Let me know what you think?

James

How is the flexibility compared to good original welting?

I feel it is comparable to maybe slightly more flexible. Please understand that I was dealing with a 40+ year old sample to begin with, but it had been in its box the entire time. For what it's worth, Steve liked the flexibility and durometer of the samples I have provided. I hope he chimes in here when he gets a chance to look at the latest sample. He should have it tomorrow.

Thanks,

James

looks good to me. How were they attached originally I wonder

Just saw this. I need cameo white. Will you PM us on when it's available or should we just stay tuned to this thread

Hello Critter,

This is a viability test using Buccaneer Red right now. If it proves feasible, Cameo white is the next up. Stay tuned! If we head in that direction, I will try to remember to PM you.

Thanks,

James