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Electric supercharger...?
Looking at a bunch of videos on YouTube thought it was interesting.
GTO George |
Sounds like a plausible option for a variable boost supercharger- good for on the fly flex fuel optimization.
Would like very much to see more info on doing that. |
Energy can be neither created nor destroyed, only changed in form.
No way a standard battery and alternator could power such a device for very long, not at any substantial power level at least. It would be more efficient to have the motor of the device attached at the output of the transmission, directly adding power, bypassing the losses it would have through the compressor and the engine. |
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I have heard that yes, the electrical power amount would be too high. Somehow driving it off the transmission would be challenging. Would that ultimately be much more efficient than simply off a drive belt, as already seen with the Procharger I-1? |
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Basically they are turbos that are fab up with an electric (24 volts or more) electric motor. GTO George |
We tested a bunch of the "Big Dogs" Electric Superchargers about the 2014 time frame.
They worked very well on 42 volt charging systems. Not so well on 12 volt systems. My company was pushing, when I was there, for a upgrade to 48 volt systems across the board on the vehicles. https://jalopnik.com/everything-you-...olt-1790364465 https://www.consumerreports.org/auto...lt-technology/ Why 48-Volt? Most cars today contain the typical 12-volt electrical system that relies on an alternator to convert the engine’s power into electrical current. That current charges the vehicle’s starter battery and runs all the vehicle’s electrical components, including lighting, infotainment, and safety systems. But 12-volt systems are becoming inadequate for modern vehicles, says Sam Abuelsamid, a senior analyst at Navigant. “We’ve got so many things in the vehicle today that are demanding electrical power,” he says, from advanced safety technology to convenience features. That’s why automakers including Fiat Chrysler Automobiles (FCA), Mercedes-Benz, and Volkswagen have started designing vehicles using 48-volt systems, which CR calls mild hybrids. The technical changes are relatively minor. Cars get an electric generator instead of an alternator, and a larger battery and regenerative brakes. Why are they making the change? Because a 48-volt system can save fuel, reduce emissions, and increase power, which helps automakers meet stricter worldwide fuel economy and emissions standards without sacrificing performance. Beyond the power boost and fuel savings, 48-volt systems don’t add as much up-front cost as true hybrids, such as the Toyota Camry Hybrid. "The addition of 48-volt batteries can be good value for consumers because they support the latest tech features and boost fuel efficiency at a reasonable price point,” said Shannon Baker-Branstetter, senior policy counsel for energy and environment at Consumers Union, the advocacy division of Consumer Reports. For example, a 48-volt system comes standard on the 2019 Ram 1500 outfitted with the smaller 3.6-liter engine. It adds only $800 to a Ram equipped with the larger 5.7-liter V8 engine, and it can boost fuel economy up to 10 percent, FCA says. It also adds up to 130 lb.-ft. of torque, which translates into better initial acceleration and more power for hauling and towing. The 48-volt battery system allows the 2019 Audi A6 to shut off its engine while coasting to save fuel. The setup also makes the car’s auto stop/start function—which shuts off the engine when the car is stopped—much less intrusive. The engine restarts faster and the air conditioning stays on while the engine is off, which addresses a common consumer complaint. “Ultimately, the biggest change in performance I think the U.S. consumer is going to appreciate is the feel of the engine start-stop performance,” says Brian McKay, director of powertrain technology and innovation for Continental North America, which supplies Audi with its 48-volt system. According to McKay, Continental’s system adds only about 33 pounds to the weight of the vehicle. Consumers will also see a vehicle’s electric-powered convenience features perform better, McKay says, with the vehicle “being able to warm up your seats faster, defrost your windshield faster.” A 48-volt system will also provide enough amperage to run power tools, which is a feature McKay expects to see used on pickup trucks. Already, FCA says the Ram 1500 can provide up to 400 watts of power. A 48-Volt Future Drivers should expect even more 48-volt advances soon. “Once you have a 48-volt infrastructure available in your car, you can start doing some interesting things with it,” McKay says. Audi already uses the 48-volt system in its A8 sedan to power small electric motors in its adaptive suspension. In Europe, the 48-volt 2018 Audi SQ7 TDI uses an electric compressor to help its twin turbochargers work faster and better, improving acceleration. A 12-volt electrical system just wouldn’t have enough juice to power these systems, Abuelsamid says. That’s also the case with the energy-hungry sensors and computers necessary for the next generation of autonomous vehicle technology. In the near future, he expects more belt-driven engine components—like water pumps and radiators—to get electrified as 48-volt systems become more commonplace. “They should also be more reliable in the long term, because they’re not dependent on that belt,” he says. Because electrical systems often have fewer moving parts than traditional approaches, they have been found to be more reliable over time. According to McKay, the 48-volt system itself shouldn’t cause any maintenance headaches. The whole system, including the battery, “will last the lifetime of the vehicle,” he says. We are eager to put those claims to the test when we purchase a Ram 1500. As for reliability, we will see what CR members say in future surveys." With a 48 Volt system, you would have instant response on the Turbo Compressor. With that much INSTANT MASS FLOW thru the engine the engine would feel like a Big shot of NOS but you would never fill the bottle. Been there, done that technology. Tested 4 different systems: Two 12 volt systems and Two 48 volt systems. No comparison between the two. 48 Volt kicks butt. Tom Vaught |
24 volt superchargers where putting out 5-7 lbs of boost of course it was a small engine (4 cylinder) but they also didn't require any power off the engine to run! More volts.....more boost!
The NEW lithium batteries make it possible. GTO George |
Today's 12 volt superchargers will make that boost number easily on the basic 4 cylinder vehicle's modern charging system. It takes POWER to spin a compressor wheel or rotor, be it belt driven, electric driven, or exhaust driven.
A very basic calculation which I can post up if anyone is interested. The same basic calculation could be used to determine the hp George is consuming with his Roots supercharger. Tom V. |
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Having add power to the driveline AT the transmission. Say the electric motor can make X amount of horsepower. If it is turning a compressor, then the friction and pumping losses are eating SOME of that power. the compressed air is going to increase frictional losses in the motor. By the time the energy has made it to the output of the tranny, you will have some value that is less than X. If the motor is put at the output shaft to begin with, then it is providing the full Xhp. George, I understand, and it would less-impractical on a pure drag car. But to make serious power I believe it would take some serious batteries, and a BIG recharging system to recover the power between runs. And I still believe that the car would be faster with having the electric motors add power directly to the driveline, instead of powering compressors that feed into a combustion engine. |
...finished a 2-Stage electric on-demand boots that takes 28 Volts and <80 amps total, and whole deal weighs < 10 Lbs.
Well of course some foolings around has prompted a rebuild of both staged to gain clearance while running. |
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2nd it really doesn't matter......it is what it is! LOL! Todays 12 volt superchargers..........thats FUNNY! LOL! GTO George |
Good for your George.
As I posted at least two boost companies have been working with Electrical people to design a electric supercharger that would improve the low end response of the Turbocharger system by adding electric boost BEFORE the exhaust driven supercharger comes on line. (Has enough exhaust volume to make the boost/power the customer wants.) This is OEM though not a Drag Racing thought. And the suppliers just want to sell their product. Tom V. |
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GTO George |
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How does that fit into the Boost Section? Except that you posted that you watched some videos. Post up some TECHNICAL Info on what the videos said, George. Thanks Tom V. |
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Supercharging is all about boost....Hence the boost section! You don’t run the boost section or for that matters any section.....I’ll post what I want or unless you want to pm a bunch of members.....just saying! GTO George |
Electric superchargers are interesting......5-10 lbs of boost can make TONS of torque and HP. It’s just an alternative to turbo charging and a pro charger type supercharger. With the newer lithium batteries it could be interesting and YES they do work!
GTO George |
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I would be particularly interested in one to provide additional boost on demand as part of an on the fly optimizable flex fuel system, aka it increases the boost when using fuels with greater octane, such as that with greater percentages of alcohol Are there any specific such videos, say on you tube regarding any of this? |
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1. ARC Superchargers 2. TorqAmp Just to name a couple real quick. GTO George |
DIY.
12 V too low got to go with >\= 28V. Worth carrying a pair of Lipos or 1additional lipo with you auto lead-acid. Anyway, my goal was 6 psi with suitable flow. sure i got 3.3 psi at flow for 28 V @ 70 Amps (self-imposed current limit) but have to redo some things to get back on the evals. and sure i can move the 70 Amps to 140 Amps ( have 300 Amp controllers) but that is not the point. Point is to do this efficiently at 70-80 Amps THEN raise the allowable current(power). |
The torqamp supercharger will make about 230 hp.
A standard belt driven vortech supercharger will make 650 hp. Question is how much do they want for their electric supercharger. Tom V. |
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