Which Radiator?
 

Need to upgrade my radiator on my GTO, tossing up between 4 row Champion, or 2 row Cold case with the 2 x 1 1/4'' tubes. What are the opinions here?

Just installed the cold case in my 68 bird. Very happy with it.

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Just found the thread from the start of the year, didn't really help me, just as confused, both have their for and against.

Save big $$ and go with the Champion /thick tanks / welded not pressed filler neck / lifetime warranty etc.

x2 on this. i use a 3 row champion in a ~500+hp 467 stroker e-head motor & it cools excellent in all street driving situations as well as countless dragstrip runs on hot summer days. have 2 friends that run the same 3 row champion radiator with 425-450hp motors & no issues anywhere. im sure the 4 row would cool all but the most radical engines.

combined with a no questions asked life time warranty & the best value price, its a quality radiator for guys on a budget & will cool 99% as good as more expensive brands for the majority of applications. & the warranty is better than most, they will send a replacement out first then you send back the bad one so no down time.

keep in mind though that just like anything you will get mixed opinions, but if you do a search, 9 out of 10 people that use them have nothing but good things to say about them. one guy that had a defective one doesn't like them to well, but aside from rare cases like that that can happen with any brand or product, they are a good budget aluminum radiator.

Cold Case offers lifetime warranty, STAMPED and welded tanks, making them look factory, compared to the Champion universal boxy tanks and offers 2 rows of 1.25" tubes.
Our big 2 row outcools any 3 or 4 row on the market. Big 2 rows are the way to go...that's why all the other big names (Griffin, Be Cool, Dewitts, US Rad) all only use 2 row designs.

Cold Case. Large-tube 2-row is the way to go.

I've installed 2 now, one in my '73 T/A clone and most recently into a friend's '67 GTO clone. Both mild 455's, and the radiators work great.

not everyone needs or cares about STAMPED tanks... & champion tanks & neck are fully tig welded too.

of course the owners of this forum & cold case will push the cold case radiators, & as we've discussed in other threads they are good radiators & theres nothing wrong with that... but they cost more & is doubtfull they cool much if any better than a 3 or 4 row champion with smaller tubes in the majority of applications.

now if you are using a radatior as a band-aide to fix another problem with the cooling system of the engine, then a better radiator might cool slightly bettter than a entry level budget radiator... but make no mistake about it, a champion 3 or 4 row is a very nice radiator & will cool most any street car as well as drag or road race cars if the rest of the system is up to par... & the radiator isnt defective.

champions radiators would work great in mild 455's too. stock 4 row radiators will cool a mild 455.

im not a owner or seller of champion & not trying to bash cold case or any other brand radiator, just stating unbiased facts about the champions based on my experience & lots of research on them before buying.... & cold case wasnt around ~5 years ago when i bought it. cant go wrong with either brand. & just like anything, it all comes down to your budget & needs for the car.

Been tested on here by a guy in florida, took 3 radiators, no changes just radiator, cold case won hands down, next champion then east wood, do a search

heres the thread... https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=807619 yes someone tested 3 radiators but if you read how the test was done it was not an equal comparison. i posted on that thread about it, the champion was tested with weaker fans producing far less cfm than the fans used for the eastwood & cold case radiators. so while it was a very good review & comparison of the radiators, you cant really say cold case won "hands down", it wasnt a fair test.

he stated the fans used for the cold case & eastwood had almost double the cfm of the fans used on the champion. pretty easy to see that test doesn't show fair & equal results. use those fans on the champion & the results would be different, im sure the cold case would still "win" but then again its got bigger rows & costs more...

also a big thing to note in that test & as i mentioned above, if your car has a cooling problem & the radiator is intended as a band aid to fix the problem, then yes you may need a bigger/better radiator. fact is a car with that build & power level should not overheat in normal driving situations, if it does something else is going on to cause it. there are plenty of cars out there with as much or more power that dont overheat in any street or race conditions with stock 4 row brass/copper radiators. & if you do a search or read through this thread or any of the others about radiators, 9 out of 10 champion users with just as much horsepower are very happy.

buy what you want & can afford. cold case are great radiators... but so are champions.

I had a 69 firebird B Cool in my A body lemans, the turbo is to the right so I needed a smaller radiator. No issues until the hub on my water pump let loose and put the clutch fan through it.
I am goiing for the cold case with the fan, $567 jegs has -50 for over $500.00 spent.
My friend just bought a mitsumoto, very nice piece cools real well.

I dont have a lot of experience with electric fans, but so far really happy with the Ford Taurus / Lincoln Fan. Coupled with a good controller, it runs variable speed, with an override switch to high if needed. Running at the track in 88 degree weather, stayed at 180-190 after several runs and idling back to the pits.

If more of a show car, I could see where a nice & shiny aluminum shroud with aftermarket fans would look nicer than a black plastic Ford part :)

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This is incorrect. Both units are welded. Champion welds on the outside which is the cheaper way to do it. Cold Case Welds on the inside. More expensive to do but a cleaner look.

btw, I know your buddy had an issue with a leaker but it was an isolated incident. I would not base giving out recommendations on one incident. Especially when it wasn't even your own personal experience.

For readers, The bottom line is that the 2,3,4 row production styles started by Champion is one of the most successful marketing gimmicks ever pulled off in the heating and cooling industry. However, aluminum radiators perform best with 2 big rows, not a bunch of small rows.

Not saying that a 4 row won't get the job done for many owners. Just saying that if you are borderline, you may end up making the wrong choice and then you have to do it all over again. Considering the price is literally identical to a big 2 row, and the welded tanks of a Champion don't look or fit like original, I'd say you need to lean toward the big 2 row design. There's a lot of hot running Pontiacs out there. Why would you experiment with a inefficient design when for about the same price you can KNOW you have the best cooling capacity available.

Don't like Cold Case? then spend the money for a Griffin or Be Cool , Entropy, Wizard, Mishimoto, Ron Davis, C&R Racing, CSF, Northern etc. This is the who's who of performance radiators and they ALL use 2 big rows. Who else uses 2,3 and 4 rows? hmm, you need to go on ebay or Amazon to find more and there aren't many.

I don't blame everyone for following the old copper/brass rad logic of 2 3 and 4 row. I mean that's what we all knew was the best for over 40 years but the entire aluminum radiator industry is not wrong. Aluminum dissipates heat very differently than copper/brass. It's just a matter of education. Read, experience and believe. :)

I won't argue with almost everything you said above here. I appreciate that you have had good experience with Champion. It's a good brand. It works for most people but MOST owners would prefer the stamped tanks for a cleaner OEM look and fit. All owners will have a lesser risk of leaking because there's just plain less weld seams.

Also, a 4 row champion costs about the same as a 2 big row Cold Case.

We exist and are on here because we clearly saw that there could be a better solution for around the same price. that option wasn't around when you made that decision. I don't blame you for sticking with a brand that has worked for you. Why wouldn't you.

New and better ideas are always coming out. That doesn't mean you have to give up and throw out your old computer. After all it gets the job done. However, It does mean that when you go to make a new purchase, you'll probably choose the newer technology. :) :beerchug:

btw, despite my animated and long winded posts and confidence in Cold Case, we have literally no distribution in Australia! :huh: So you should probably try and find a nice big two row radiator (or 4 row) over there. Dual 1" is probably good. Dual 1 1/4" literally guarantees that the radiator will not be the cause of overheating issues. There should be a couple of options for you locally as the shipping costs from the USA will probably make the purchase rather expensive.

I've had my '71 GTO for about 2.5 years. When I originally got it, I noticed that it liked to run hot. Never did boil over. It had the original radiator which I thought had probably seen better days. I did some research on various radiators and decided that an aluminum radiator was the way to go. Most, not all, felt that it cooled better then a brass/copper one. I bought mine from Cold Case. It looked nice and the fit was great. It immediately brought my running hot engine under control. I now run 180 degrees for a while and then it creeps up to 195. Stays there for the most part. I don't recall if ever going higher then 215. Depends on the outside temp. and what I'm doing with the car. If I could find any fault at all with the Cold case, it's that they spray paint their name on the inside fins. I don't really care for that, Carmine.

Cold case from Summit. Best price / shipping available. Great fit and looks great with black painted lacquer. Also don't like the spray painted name on inside like Carmine.

Yep, that's my other issue, you should supply me one real cheap to offset the freight, then I can be your advertising down under :D The only local radiator I can find available here, without going custom built is Mishimoto 3 row suit 68-72 Chevlle,
https://www.mishimoto.com.au/chevrol...tor-68-72.html
but I haven't considered it because it's only 3 row, and I need to cool a big stroker.
Does anybody know what the tube size is in these?
As far as the Cold case or Champion I can get either thru Ebay with Global shipping which isn't too bad considering.

How many people out there have over heating problems with a copper recored original four core radiator?

Always wondered since most people compare a new aluminum radiator to a old OEM unit with the original core rather than a quality recored piece.

Good questions. Looking forward to seeing some replies.

If I could also mention this, my '62 SS came with a 327 engine which ran well but I don't know if the stock radiator cooled it properly. I only ran the car up and down the driveway a few times. I doubt it ever reached operating temperature. It had also been my plan to drop in a 409 engine which I did. Depending on who you talked to and what you read, these "W" engines had a reputation for running hot. I didn't want to take any chances so I bought a new aluminum 2 core 1" tube radiator for the car. Sorry, but the vendors name escapes me at this time. This was a welded radiator and fit perfectly. It was about half the price of a Cold Case. It's performed flawlessly. The engine will run all day in July at 180 degrees almost constantly. No regrets in buying this radiator. For my GTO with factory air, I wanted something a little better. At least I thought it was better and I still do. It cools my engine better then the stock one and I have no regrets in buying it, Carmine.