Lifter advice (HFT)
 

Looking for advice on what lifters to run. I’ve done so many searches and have read countless threads on this forum as well as others and my head is now spinning.

I’ve come to the following conclusions...

-Purchasing lifters from any one of the cam manufacturers is a crap shoot. No way to know if they are US made or manufactured offshore.

-Offshore manufacturers even appear to use some of the same or similar part numbers or even company names lol.

-Many threads say to purchase HyLift Johnson (most likely through a forum member here).

If I go that route which lifters would I want? 951? 951R?

I have a ‘72 400 that I’m presently rebuilding with low-compression ‘79 6x-4 heads just back from the shop. Cam will be Crower 60240 (again, countless forum post searches and reading lol).

HyLift Johnson appears to say that the 951R’s are 951’s with a faster bleed down rate. I assume I don’t need that for my rather mild situation but am confused because because I’ve read that everyone seems to recommend the R’s (even in threads regarding similar cams like the XE262). Are the standard 951’s fine in my case? I’m open to any suggestions or ideas. I’ve read so much conflicting stuff it’s now just stressful to think about it any more haha.

Thanks

It's a mess!

You’ve picked a good cam, now order the Hylift Johnson standard 951 lifters from Paul, and you will be set!!!

I've had the best luck with NOS GM lifters, still quite a few of them out there.

I mic'ed a bunch of different lifter brands and the GM pieces were by quite a margin the most accurately machined of the bunch.

That Cams a good pick when using the stock spring installed height allowed by the 6X heads, but if I assume your building. .030" over motor and running the heads unmilled things stack up such that I figure you have a total CC volume above the piston of 119.46 CCs which will give you only a 7.95 compression ratio.

With that can I would say you need to shoot for a 9 to 1 ratio which means dropping off 9 to 10 CCs.

A cure to both the lifter issue and compression might be to run Rhodes lifters!

Thanks for all the replies guys. I should have just posted this question weeks ago instead of tormenting myself each night reading. Haha. Thank you.

Was thinking about that Steve thanks. I have to cc my heads this weekend if I get a chance to verify what the shop said when I picked them up. I swore they said 92cc but every chart I see seems to say 93-95cc (1978-1978 6x-4 W72). Engine is original standard bore with stock OE pistons.

Heads have new 995-16 Comp springs but I can swap them to stock easily. Thx, that was going to be my next question.

I would stick with the 995-16 springs. The stocks are pretty low tension and valve springs (I know from experience) can lose alot of tension easily. The 995's will give you wiggle room on spring tension before they ever need replacement. IMHO

I've never had a single issue with any hydraulic flat tappet lifter in a Pontiac or any other engine for that matter.

I will say that if it's an engine I care about I'll buy the Hylift Johnson lifters to sleep a little better, But I've run everything from what ever Melling supplies with their cams, to Crane, Crower, Summit brand, and Comp. I've even mismatched and grabbed a used cam I had for one engine and just went up to the local auto parts store and bought a box of no name hydraulic lifters and popped them on top of the L79 cam in a 327 I have here, then proceeded to shift that engine at 6500 rpm for years.

I got a set of the std 951s from Paul and they are fantastic. I replaced the set that came from Comp that had a pair of tickers - the genuine Johnson that Paul sources are hands down the best route for a FT cam.

The "R" suffix indicates a positive plunger retainer that allows the lifter to be run @ zero lash if desired. Does not indicate fast bleed down.
Get the HLJ lifters with "R" suffix. There is no downside.

Thanks again for all the responses guys... it helps ease my mind a bit. I think I just read so many posts from people who had mishaps that I was getting concerned.


That’s exactly what I was reading for the most part, until I went on HL J/Topline Auto’s website... They actually use the term “bleed down” and “variable duration” when referencing the -R’s.

“ “R” or Race Design: These parts have an “R” designation after their part number. So a Race Design part number will look like A-0817R. These Lifters have a Leak Down on the lower end of the scale from 8 to 20 seconds. In the performance application these lifter will actually “Bleed” down and result in an effective loss of valve lift and duration at lower RPMs. These are also referred to as “Variable Duration” Lifters and will supply a better idle quality when using a performance cam while still getting the benefit of the upper end power over a stock cam. As the engine increases in RPM the Bleed down effect is reduced resulting in more dura- tion and valve lift. Having lifters with a much smaller Leak Down range will also balance all of the cylinders to each other. Having one cylinder with lifters having a Leak Down of 80 seconds will react and produce a different power curve than the same cylinder with a 10 second Lifter.”

""Thanks again for all the responses guys... it helps ease my mind a bit. I think I just read so many posts from people who had mishaps that I was getting concerned.""



That's the problem with the internet. Unfortunately people only feel compelled to write something when they have an issue so you mainly see complaints rather than praise.
Fact is the majority of complaints read is really a minority when you compare to the grand scheme of things. There is more success out there than failure. Couple that with the fact that most people here don't put many miles on their classics for a real world longevity test. So I wouldn't worry too much about your choices. Pick what you're comfortable with and go out and enjoy that car ;)

Another option is one that I haven't seen anybody else mention on this site but me. If others have, I'm not aware.

It's the Delphi lifters which have the hardened foot. Paul Spotts use to sell these lifters & posted on his Ebay store that he thought they were the best HFT lifters available. Said he'd used 'em for years. Then he quit selling them with his cam kits.

I've posted about the Jegs brand lifters I bought , which turned put to be the Delphi lifters, with the hardened foot. Jegs claims these lifters are made in the USA.

A guy on the Class Racer forum even suggested these lifters as budget lifters for Stock Elim engines with milder cam/valve spring set-ups. I don't know if he thinks the hardened foot will wear better than regular lifters, or what.

So, does ANYBODY here besides me know anything about these Delphi lifters ? Has anybody else used 'em ? :confused:

I replaced the flimsy wire retainers with real snap ring retainers, which I bought at Fastenal. Rhoads uses the snap rings in their original style lifters. I've used quite a few sets of Rhoads, which are modified Hylift Johnson cores, over the years. Never had a single problem with any of 'em.

The only reason I bought a Summit 2802 cam & Jegs lifters is because my bracket car has to be a real low budget project. With enuff funds I'd have bought a Melling SPC-8 cam & Rhoads Original lifters, with the Super Lube option.

Speaking of the extra lube option. Crower sells some which they call "Cam Saver". Someone here posted that they have used a set. Don't have a clue who made the cores. But the ad says they're made in the USA. I've read here that the only USA made Pontiac HFT lifters are Hylift Johnson & Delphi. Obviously, I have no way of knowing what lifters will come in the Crower box. Also don't know where to find the lowest total shipped price.

https://www.jegs.com/i/Crower/258/66...BoCWsYQAvD_BwE

Hi Ken , I think they've changed things around at Top line due to the state of the economy. The R lifters have controlled bleed down rates but do act similar to a Rhoades lifter. They just don't bleed down as fast or tame the cam as much...they're also not as noisy as the Rhoads.

The plain 951 have a "loose" tolerance on the bleed down rate and any engine with stiffer than stock springs may get a ticker in the bunch because the stiff spring causes it to bleed down.

They need to make an "S" lifter for our Pontiacs....that would be the lifter that used to be the R. It has controlled bleed down rates and the limited travel retainer.

Im quite certain on all the above. It came straight from Dave Popp the man in charge of the lifter department. I have cross examined him several times over the years and his story has remained the same.

He said "we don't have a quite lifter for a Pontiac using aftermarket performance springs" ..... He couldn't recommend a lifter manufacturer for that application either.

Truthfully I have had good luck with Summit brand lifters. Never had one collapse or tick

"...It has controlled bleed down rates and the limited travel retainer..."


I don't have a clue if this is anything like what you've described, but the Lunati Micro-Trol lifters have real snap rings. Here's the description.

"Lunati's Micro-Trol lifters are designed for performance applications where precise oil control is an absolute necessity. The precise oil control allows higher rpm potential. To obtain maximum performance from this lifter, the plunger is held in place by a full contact snap ring. It's specially designed to be an integral part of the lifter assembly, unlike wire clip locking rings that come apart at high rpms, destroying the lifter."

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/l...RoCWuwQAvD_BwE

Thanks for the update, Paul. I was using the 2005 hylift cat given tome by Dave Popp at the 05 SEMA show. Everyone here should download the Hylift Johnson cat for a good lifter education.

I used a CC figure of 101 for the chamber volume when I posted that 7.95 number seeing as the heads have likely had a valve job which sinks the valves and then also covers the added 2 to 3 CCs of ring land volume that most folks never factor in, in fact if you don't run a gapless rings it's definitely closer to 3 CCs then 2 CCs to add in.

So, are you saying that most all common online CR calculators, such as the Wallace calculator, which I often refer to, assumes that the top rings are exactly even with the piston tops, & therefore we should add 3 cc to the head chamber volume, just for that one error ? :confused:

That may be why so many claim to be doing just fine running 10:1 or more CR on pump gas.

So, how many cc do we need to add for .045 x 4.3" bore head gaskets plus their out of round shape ? :confused:

What other things do most of the calculators not take into account ? :confused:

Those Jegs/Delphi lifters have the low inertia check disc, much like the Johnson lifter (instead of a check ball)

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