Super Stock Drag Racing
 

This thread is for anything connected to Pontiac powered Super Stock drag racing.

Can be about current or past drivers, builders, cars, or parts.

Can also include info about non-Pontiac cars/parts that could be used on a Pontiac--but not the engine itself. This is for Pontiac power only !

Questions, info, & pics, concerning Pontiac powered Super Stock cars, parts, & drivers are welcome in this thread.

I'm interested in what makes the SS Pontiacs tick. :)

Jack Mullins
 

I suppose my first Pontiac Super Stock hero was Jack Mullins. He rose to fame racing a big 389 4-speed wagon. He won national events, including the 1975 US Nationals.

We saw him race the wagon in Jackson Miss. I'd never heard a Pontiac engine wind that high, nor seen anybody shift a 4-speed any quicker.

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0212hpp-pontiac-history/

Always fond of the SS cars. I run Nostalgia Super Stock and allot of the guys in my class are also legal for SS. Only problem I see is #3&4 on your other thread. No one wants to give out info on these builds.
Hopefully I am wrong and a few will chime in.

Yeah, I can understand why some would not give out certain details. But, especially for some of the GT classes, there are mild combos that will run just under the index. That's quick enuff to win any race, unless you have a same class heads-up run.

I've noticed that Lindy Lindholm has started running his 2nd gen Stocker in GT Super Stock. It runs barely under the index. Would be interesting to know what engine changes he made, if any. Although some porting, roller cams, alum intakes, and wide tires are legal, don't know what changes he made.

At the recent Vegas race, he only ran an 11.28. But that was good enuff, for non heads-up runs. Larry Maxwell also ran an 11.28, with his 350 powered '68 Bird.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2018#indextop

Hey, there are a LOT of street cars here, running quicker than those guys. So, you wouldn't have to know any real deep SS secrets to build a GT Super Stock car that will runs it's index. And, if you don't have a lot of exotic parts in your engine, you can run some of the big bucks bracket races with the same car. There are quite a few Stock racers who run both, with the same car.

Just checked the indexes for Stock, SS, & GT classes. The SS/GT indexes are almost exactly 1 sec quicker than the Stock indexes for the same lbs/hp classes.

For example: The E/SA class is 10lb/hp & the index is 11.70. In reg SS, the 10lb/hp index is 10.70--one sec quicker. In GT, the index is 10.65.

Several of the Pontiac Stockers can run more than a sec under their Stock index. So, those cars could run under their SS index, without changing a thing.

And, since SS & GT cars are allowed some porting, roller cams, light pistons, alum intakes, tranny brakes, & big tires, running a sec under their Stock index should be easily possible. At least that's how it appears to me.

I'd like to hear what others think. Aprox how much improvement in ET would all those changes make, to a car that will run just under it's Stock index ? :confused:

For example:

(1) How much can be gained by the tranny brake & big enuff tires to hook it up ?

(2) Assuming a tranny brake/big tires, how much can be gained by just switching from a Stocker cam, to the correct solid roller ?

(3) How much ET is a Victor intake worth, on such an engine ?

(4) What about the lighter pistons & legal porting ?

Here's another question.

If you choose a '68 428 engine for GT, which is quite popular, the Edelbrock 60587 alum heads are legal. Anybody know aprox how much ET they are worth, over SS legal iron D-port heads ?

http://www.edelbrock.com/media/news/.../070908-2.html

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-60587

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...9&MAKE=Pontiac

Thanks for starting these two threads. Really love watching both classes and all the hard work that goes into these cars. Probably 80% of the work that goes out of the shop I frequent is NHRA Stock and Super Stock. Several are Pontiacs. If I have credible information about a specific topic, I will be happy to chime in.

"...If I have credible information about a specific topic, I will be happy to chime in..."


Please do !

Thanks !

On a legal 400CID 69 GTO SS car I helped a guy with years back, we tried 3 intakes in 1 day. Factory 69 Q-Jet Intake, Performer RPM and a Victor, all used the same 800CFM Q-jet.
Looking back at an old log book of his runs
Factory Iron Intake- 11.25@121.17
Performer RPM-11.14@122.8
Victor-11.12@122.6

No tuning, spacers etc between swaps.
I believe he eventually cut the divider in the RPM and picked up a bunch.

ON the 60587 heads are the only legal in GT classes?

"...ON the 60587 heads are the only legal in GT classes?"


Legal in all SS classes. But, the reason nobody runs 'em on a 428, in a reg SS car, is that the '68 428 came only in the big cars--no A or F bodies.

They are also legal on '69-'70 RAIV SS engines. But the lowest hp rating is 350. So, with it's lower hp factor, the 428 is a more competitive engine. IMO Just makes sense to me that the 428 with the same heads, has the power advantage.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...7&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...2&MAKE=Pontiac

"...On a legal 400CID 69 GTO SS car I helped a guy with years back, we...used the same 800CFM Q-jet."


I just noticed this. An 800cfm Q-jet is not legal on a '69 GTO. All came with a 750. So, only 750 Q-jets are legal. Can't make the throats any bigger. Can use any GM 750, or an Edelbrock 1901. Mods are limited.

The primary Venturi in the E-1901 is listed as being slightly larger than the GM 750's. Don't know if that is enuff to help or not. Apparently not, since most of the Stock/SS Pontiacs I've seen are running Pontiac Q-jets. I assume that if there was a measurable performance advantage, most would run the 1901.

I also just noticed that the hp factor for the '69 350hp GTO, in SS, is only 306. That might make a '69 350hp GTO a decent choice for SS. The factor is 310 for GT. Don't know why the difference.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...4&MAKE=Pontiac

This brings up a question. How much can be gained by using an 800 Q-jet over a 750 Q-jet, on the same Stock/SS engine ? If the gain is enuff, that might give a '75-up Pontiac combo a slight advantage, since they all had 800's. Maybe Cliff can help out with this question. I think I've read that he's built some Q-jets for some Pure Stock cars, and maybe some Stockers too. He has probably done some dyno work & strip testing, comparing his 750's against his 800's.

I'd sure like to see Scott Burton get his 3rd gen firebird SS'er going better. Both he and his son have driven it. His son is a kick ass driver!!!

He will. But hey, at the last race it ran a 9.81, which was 3/4 of a sec under his index. So he qualified in the top half of the field.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...UMMIT#indextop

And, at the Vegas national event, he got RU to a great SS racer, when he just barely tripped the red light, with a -.002.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

The car was a legal car in early 90's and had sat for a few years, not sure what carb was run at the time it was campaigned in NHRA SS. The guy I was helping bought the car turn key from a guy in the North East with hopes and dreams of running NHRA Divisional events but health issues never let him. I have tried to locate the car several times to buy it but have had no luck. His name was Marvin Burke and he died a few years after that. He lived near Clemson SC.
The point was we used the same carb on 3 intakes to keep it a fair comparison. The carb was a Q-jet built by my father and loaned to him for intake test. I was trying to show the intake differences..

I will see John Angeles on the 28th.He has run the 428 E head combo in his 69 in GT I think.Will see what he will give up.Tom

Yeah, I think his '69 RAIV Bird was the 1st Pontiac powered SS car to make a 9 sec run, with Keri driving. At least that's what is posted on Bruce Fulpers site. I'm sure John knows a few Pontiac speed secrets.

http://www.pontiacpower.com/performance.htm

Yakr,
I got a challenge for you...
Find some pictures of Truman Fields 72 GTO....there's one in the 70-72 GTO section here, in action, posted by threefidee. see if you can find any more :)
My buddy owned that car from 1980 to 2012. It is now owned by Mark Weymouth, being restored to it's day 2 version as a SS car, that Truman raced it as....

There are a few at this link.

http://ftp.myclassicgarage.com/socia...-Ram-Air/37906

Here's it is on the GTO forum.

http://www.gtoforum.com/642010-post3.html

Here's one off my laptop.

'72 GTO
 

That reminded me of the only '72 GTO Super Stocker we ever saw. It was at the '78 Cajun Nats. It was a National record holder, owned by Sonny Ray . TJ got a good close up pic of car & driver. I assume it was a 455HO car.

Sonny's future son-in-law, David Rampy, won his 1st National Event, in that car, at the Cajun Nats, in '83. Rampy has had a very successful racing career.

https://www.motorsport.com/nhra/news...2-david-rampy/

I think I see an H-O Racing Specialties decal on the front fender, in the 3rd pic below, which reminds me that I still have a few left, if anybody wants some. If interested Email me at ba455@outlook.com, for order info.

"...Find some pictures of Truman Fields 72 GTO..."

Can ya stand some more ?

The 2nd pic shows the old 5-amber tree we use to have. Anybody know when most big tracks switched over to the 3-amber tree ? :confused:

John Angeles's old RAIV motor had a single pattern cam when we talked at Donut Derilics with you Tom. We exchanged RAIV ideas then.