70 Judge RA IV: LOOKING FOR INFO ON MY "NEW" CAR
 

Hello everyone,

Posted this on another forum but was told THIS is the place to be. Finally got the car I've been looking for and I am hoping this is a car that is known to some of you and perhaps there is some info out there (stories, pictures, etc). I have some optimism because this car is unique to the point there is no way it hasn't been recognized. Here is what it is:

1970 Pontiac GTO Judge RAM AIR IV
-4-Speed
-Matching numbers all through out
-Polar White
-Dark Saddle (Brown) Interior Code 253 or 53
-"Zone Car" has 2 sales invoices given by PHS
-25 options on the car
-Won concourse gold at the 2001 GTO Nationals

Any info or stories anyone might have would be great. I am looking for some specific info though:

-Any info on the 253 or 53 code interior? It is "Dark Saddle", sometimes referred to as "Brown". It is not like saddle, no tan about it. I have looked at literally thousands of cars over the years and never seen this before. Any info on this would be appreciated.

-The 2 invoices show it was originally invoiced to FRANK HAYES PONTIAC in Williamsport, PA Dealer Code 03-267 on 12/29/69 then on 2/24/70 it was transferred to the PONTIAC MOTOR DIVISION ZONE 3 in Jenkintown, PA, Dealer code 03-991. Looking for any info on this, why it might have been transferred. Frank Hayes it seems went out a while back. Anyone know about them?

Any other info would be great. Really appreciate any help, just trying to build the story and all. I will probably post another thread on these specific topics but just wanted to start with this.

Congrats on your Judge!

Interesting on the dates of the PHS's
Seems most were at the zone office 1st then went to the dealer.

Can you post the PHS's?

Also wouldn't have found the buildsheet for it?

:)

My old car! Sold it to a old man down in Tennessee I think about 15yrs ago. I believe it was a zone car first. Not sure about 25 options but it was uniquely optioned. Heated rear glass,reclining pass seat,formula wheel. Didnt have right carb or distributor when I had it but was definitely original engine and trans and rear. Brown Interior is fairly rare on a 70 in my book.

Wasn't a WT7 was it?


:confused:

No it was not.

Welcome aboard to the best forum for information!

Hey guys, thanks a ton, glad we got recommended over here. I attached pictures of the invoices, I have all the docs for it too, both build sheets, PHS window sticker, etc.

Take a look at the invoices, see if that looks familiar. That would blow my mind if you were one of the previous owners! If it was your car then you may have been the one who took it to the 2001 GTOAA event and got concourse gold?

Cool car and welcome aboard PY

Don did own the car until about 1999 or so. I first met him calling on his ad in Hemmings Motor News. I was very close to pulling the trigger but ended up buying another car. I still have a few photos that Don sent me before the car was restored. Yes that was before email or texting.
Jack K in Tennessee bought the car from Don and had it restored. I saw it at the GTOAA Convention in 2001 in Minnesota. The car was beautiful. Always wished I had bought that one. Very unique car.
I had heard that had Jack passed on but was not sure??? Did you buy the car from Jack or was there someone else in the middle? Also, how long have you had it?
By the way the official color of the interior is Brown. Saddle is an entirely different color.

This does seem to fit. Kind of like a long lost reunion! I've only had it a couple of weeks now. The gentleman I bought it from is a collector in Louisiana, I believe he may have bought it from Jack, not sure if there was anyone in between. He did not say if the previous owner had passed or not but he did say the restorer is still alive. I would happily purchase those pictures or even if I could just get a look at them if you are willing. The car is in phenomenal condition still, it was very well cared for (and will continue to be). You would never guess it had been two decades since it was restored.

The reason I mentioned saddle in the color is because I keep seeing either "dark brown" or "dark saddle" for the color code, no consistency. There must have been some confusion throughout the years over the name, people thinking it is called dark saddle instead of dark brown.

The carb is the right numbers, haven't finished researching the distributor yet though. I think the previous owners during restoration and even after went to serious lengths to ensure the car was correct top to bottom, OE parts only. Again, it's only been a couple weeks now.

From what I know, the only way to find out WT7 is by build sheet. Box 60 should contain a number 5 I think? For some reason it wasn't listed on PHS docs, only there. Mine is number 1 in box 60. There in't anywhere else this would be identified correct?

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Our 70 OO Judge also had the Heated Rear Window. Sandlewood Interior.

Is your Judge made at the Arlington TX plant?
What is the Firewall color?

Those are unbelievable, thank you so much. Car still has the black spoiler on it even after restoration.

-Car was made at the Pontiac plant

Thanks for the PHS's

I'll let BVZ decipher these I think. I would probably get it wrong.
To me it does look like it went to zone office last?
Possibly on a tour?

Very cool Judge for sure.

:)

Thats right, dates show it went to dealer first, then to zone office. :noidea:

Are you sure there wasn't another PHS after the 2/24/70? Sounds like it was going to another dealership and was sent to a storage (holding) lot.

I have no knowledge of a third, I've attached to this a picture of the letter PHS sent with the documents and they wrote the owner at the time "Jack" about how there were 2 invoices.
It is interesting you use the term "storage". I have also attached one of the two build sheets (the other one is not in as good of condition). At the bottom they have a note talking about installing the body in storage? I haven't ever seen that before however I don't have much experience with Pontiac build sheets.

Also, the whole WT7 thing. I have read the great 6 page thread that attempted to delve into decoding the WT7 but didn't find many answers. The pictures of the car when Don was selling it around 1999 show it had the black spoiler, and when Jack bought it and had it restored he spent a lot of time making sure the car was as accurate as he could. I find it interesting he left the spoiler black. I don't see anywhere that it should be but again, I'm not an expert in document decoding. Does anyone see anything on the build sheet that eludes to this? I know it has been mentioned that Pontiac built cars don't follow the same patterns other plants used in regards to identifying WT7.