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-   -   1965 Bucket Seat Build - Complete Teardown and rebuild (https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=847304)

rambow 01-06-2021 07:56 PM

1965 Bucket Seat Build - Complete Teardown and rebuild
 
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There are quite a few threads out there showing rebuilding 66-72 style seats, but I've never seen one for the 64/65 style buckets.
While the bottom cushions are similar, the upper cushions are completely different (and I find the 64/65 considerably harder)- so they deserve their own write up.

I'm doing a set for a customers 65 Lemans right now, so I thought it was a good time to do it.

Since this set of seats is in extremely good condition(other than the worn covers), I'm going to take lots of photos of the tear down as an example of what they should look like underneath, and how they should go back together.

Even for their exceptionally rust free condition, these still have all the commonly broken springs. Don't be fooled into thinking you need to buy all new spring assemblies if you encounter this! These can be fixed quickly and easily and cheaply- and I will show that.

So here we go- 1965 Pontiac Lemans Bucket Seat Build!

rambow 01-06-2021 08:03 PM

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A little background- I have been doing seats as my hobby business for the last 10 years, basically its my way to fund the classic car hobby for myself.
Due to my own interests I primarily focus on GM A-body and F-body seats, but I've also done fords and Mopars,trucks and everything in between from the 50's to the 70's. I don't have any interest in doing any newer stuff- and since its my hobby I don't feel bad turning away projects that don't interest me.
I am not a custom upholstery shop- I don't make covers (not yet anyway, working on learning it) but rather I specialize in installing the pre-made reproduction covers, and repairing the underlying spring assemblies that are unique to these seats, and key to them feeling right when done.

Anyway, enough about me... lets talk tools before we start.

#1 most important tool is my camera. I take photos of EVERYTHING as i tear stuff down, because you never know what you may need when putting them back together. I've gotten lazy doing this as I've done many a-body buckets i don't really need them anymore, but anytime i get a new seat I'm unfamiliar with, i wind up with hundreds of pics... photos are a free resource as long as you remember to take them as you go.

The #2 most used tool- 8" Bolt cutters like these: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-8-in...tters/50069713
I use these to cut off hog rings and twist them off. If you try and use side cutters or dykes it will shock the hell out of your hand every time you cut one. These cut nice and easy with no shock. And the head is still small enough to get into every place needed and you can grab the hog ring and twist it off if possible saving you further.

And #3... a sharp box knife. I have one where i can change blades quickly, and i change em often so its always sharp.
In my writeup, i'm being careful with these covers because i wanted to save it so i can use it as a template to make new covers from scratch (a different project) but most of the time, i will use my box knife to cut them apart to make life easier.
This is ESPECIALLY important when the old covers are gross and brittle, because they don't often come off in one piece... so better to slice and dice.

Anyway enough of that here we go- I usually start with detailed pics of the outside showing the corners, special tucks, where seams fall, etc. etc.

Use a pair of pliers to twist the chrome button caps over the hinge pin to remove them.
I'm rarely successful trying to save them by prying them off.. in this case the side trim was too nice to risk denting by prying on them...

Pull each hinge arm off the pin and separate the cushions.

pay close attention to where the screws were in the sides of the upper cushion- mark their location and take a pic showing where they are in relation to the sleeve channel. This will help with positioning the new cover later.

On this kind of seat i also pay attention to the rear flap on the lower cushion and how far forward the sides were pulled. On this seat they were already loose.

rambow 01-06-2021 08:07 PM

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After separating cushions, start on the underside of the lower cushion.
Remove all the hogrings holding the attaching sleeve to the frame around the perimeter.
I find twisting them is quicker and less painful on the hands than cutting every one... Just remember if your frames are badly rusted you may not want to twist and stick to cutting.

In the rear you will find a cardboard liner, this is protecting the rear flap of the cover from the springs.

Flip the rear flap up, and carefully remove the cardboard liner.
If its in decent shape it can be re-used... if not use whats left as a template.

rambow 01-06-2021 08:18 PM

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Under the rear flap, remove the hogrings holding the rear cover sleeve to the frame.
Remove the metal rod inside the sleeve and save it for later.

Pull the cover up starting at the rear corner and work your way to the front corner pulling it upward over the front corner.

Repeat on the other side. Cover should now be inside out with the sides and front facing upwards.

Under it you will find a layer of cotton batting, wraped with gauze/cheese cloth tucked into the listing channel and draped over the bun. Remove it.

Use a marker to mark the cover and bun where the cover listing sleeves are hogringed through the bun.

Repeat on the other side.

Cut the hogrings holding the cover listing sleeves/rods so you can remove the cover.

rambow 01-06-2021 08:23 PM

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Even nice looking covers can reveal some nasty secrets when removed...
This looks like just coffee or soda... but i've seen a lot worse on the underside of vinyl! LOL

Now the bun is exposed, time to remove it. Pay attention to where it was attached, as you will be installing the new one in the same manner.

At the rear of the seat, cut the hogrings holding the buns "attaching cloth" to the frame.

Flip the cushion over- cut the hogrings holding the front & side cloths to the frame
Flip the cushion right side up again and start to lift the bun off the cushion. You may have to cut more hogrings along the listing channel, or it may be easier to just rip them off or cut them free with a box knife.

rambow 01-06-2021 08:29 PM

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Now the bun is free...
I took a photo showing this one on the bottom side just to show what it looked like.

next is the padding or decking layer.
This is a burlap pad with a layer of cotton sewn on top of it, with the listing channels left with the burlap exposed to make it easier to reach the listing rods when installing the covers.

This is an important layer as it helps protect the bottom of the foam bun from the movement of the springs. Later I'll show the materials i use to replicate this layer.

Under the padding / decking layer is a sheet of burlap w/ music wires woven through it.
This layer was designed to help stabilize the spring assembly a bit & spread the load across the springs- however I'm making the note that I don't like them.
I've found too many cases where the wires become brittle overtime, snap and poke through the bun and the cover.
Had it happen in a car in bought years back, so I don't put them back in seats I redo for that reason.

rambow 01-06-2021 08:32 PM

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With the burlap/music wire removed, there are some more peices of jute felt hogringed to the side springs for insulation keeping the springs from making noise rubbing against each other.

There should also be another wide sheet that wraps around the front springs, but its missing here. I'll see if the 2nd bucket still has its peice for an example.

for now i've shown detail on the side spring insulation in place and removed.
I'll show later on how i replicate that.

And finally- we have a bare lower bucket cushion

rambow 01-06-2021 08:35 PM

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..But despite all the shiny clean metal- these are still 50+ year old seats and have all the most commonly broken springs.

Both side support springs are broken, and both front corner springs are broken, and one of the paper covered listing rods has broken from its clamp.

I'll show how to replicate those after we finish stripping the upper cushion.

Stay Tuned.

rambow 01-07-2021 02:59 AM

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Onto the Upper Cushion!!!

Again, lots of pictures of every area will help you to figure out how to put it back together!

Some details of the bottom corners how the cover is tucked in...
Detail shots showing marks along the sides where the screws went through... Then start cutting hogrings.
Remove and save the rods from the sides and the bottoms.

rambow 01-07-2021 03:05 AM

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You'll notice that the upper flap is attached over the lower flap... so it comes off first.
Now remove the hog rings to free up the lower flap.
Remove and save the rods.
With the lower flap loose, you will see a cloth sleeve that pulls the bottom of the cover up to the springs. Remove the hogrings for the flap. Bottom edge of cover will now be free.

rambow 01-07-2021 03:20 AM

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This next part I did because I needed to save the cover intact- and also to show in reverse how the cover should look as you are installing it... Most likely anyone else doing this step would just cut the rear flap of the cover off to make things easier...

Anyway- all that said, at this point I compressed the top of the seat cushion as far as it would go, then pulled the cover inside out up and over the top corners.
This sounds easy, but its not... the top of the slit down the sides becomes the stress point so you have to watch it and work quickly.

Anyway- here are pics AFTER it pulled inside out, and luckily did not rip.

On top of the bun, tucked into the listing channels like on the lower cushions is a layer of cotton wrapped in gauze/cheesecloth. This wraps up and over the top of the seat cushion.

Note the reference notch on the inside seams of the cover. They line up (roughly) with the top of the side sleeves, and the mounting pad on the side of the frame.
There is another reference notch on the cover that matches up with the bottom pad on the frame.

Remove the cotton batting, and mark the locations of the listing channel hogrings onto the cover and bun. Then remove them, then remove the cover.

rambow 01-07-2021 03:29 AM

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Many of these seats you will notice a TON of hogrings in the listing channels.
About half of them don't actually catch the listing rods underneath either. The reason for that is the factory had a big air powered hogring tool that had a magazine of hogrings and they could shoot them out quick and if they missed they could just shoot more on.

When you are redoing it you don't need nearly that many- typically i will use 4 for the lower cushion (in each channels) and 4-5 in the upper cushion channels.

Flip the cushion over, and remove the hogrings holding the top attaching cloth to the frame.

Remove the hogrings at the bottom rear, then the sides. The bun can now be peeled off.

rambow 01-07-2021 03:37 AM

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With the bun removed the padding / decking layer is exposed
Remove all the hogrings around its perimeter to remove it.
Then remove the hogrings for the burlap/music wire layer and remove it.
There are a couple peices of jute spring insulation inbetween the top springs, remove it- and the upper cushion is now stripped.

rambow 01-07-2021 03:47 AM

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Showing a couple quick pics of the top burlap strip. This does two things, it pulls the top edgewire down to a set distance from the frame, AND it provides a "shelf" that holds the bun up at the top of the seat, so that once the cover is on, you feel cushion at the top of the seat instead of a void under the cover.

If your burlap strip is shredded, rotten or missing you will need to replace it.

Looking closely, we've got some broken springs here as well... We'll address these in the next edition...

Greg Reid 01-07-2021 11:44 AM

Excellent, thanks.

1_Wild_Cat 01-07-2021 12:32 PM

Fantastic -- Thank you for taking the time to do this. I know how time consuming these step-by-step write-ups can be. I'm going to be doing my '64 in the (hopefully not too distant) future, and I can see this post is going to be a lifesaver. Thanks again.

rohrt 01-07-2021 04:45 PM

Great stuff

bluejudge 01-08-2021 08:03 AM

Great information. Even though I will be doing my 69 Conv. soon (hopefully). This has to be similar. Thanks, Marc.

elefantrider 01-08-2021 09:06 AM

Thanks! I have some broken springs on mine too. Drivers side compresses much lower than passenger side.
Are those black or blue seats?

If you customer wants to sell the rear seat back cover, let me know, I am looking for a used black one.

Peter Serio 01-08-2021 04:10 PM

One thing I wanted to mention was in working on any car that is over 30 to 40 years old; no matter what the seat covers look like the cotton under wrap also that molded latex foam & the burlap will develop a bad smell. Kind like a musty, mold stink. If the seats are set out in the sunlight the smell will get even worse. That's the foam actually deteriorating.

In my experience once old car seats start to smell like that there is no way to get rid of the smell. The only cure is as above to remove ALL of the old covers, foam, cotton and burlap material and replace with brand new!

Awesome tutorial BTW.


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