Issues with the 317?
 

My 56 Chieftain has the original 2bbl 317 in it. From what I'd read before it seems like it was a pretty solid engine. Ran into a couple guys at a car show this weekend, both owners of some mid-50's Pontiacs, and both said the 317 would give me problems eventually (specifically the lifters). Granted these were street rodders and they advocated putting an LS style engine into it, but I thought I'd try to find some more information on this and some searches on here didn't turn up anything.

The engine will be rebuilt when I do the front end but. Anything I should look for in the way or upgrades or problem areas on it?

Stop listening to people at car shows.

I suppose if I had a 60 YEAR OLD MOTOR I would be concerned about problems too. Seriously.... Grumpy Old men. IF it breaks fix it, don't stress over what MAY happen.

My 1st car was a 56 Chieftan 4 dr hardtop with a 2 brl 316. It ran good all things considered..it would scoot right along. I had a coolant leak that I couldn't seem to track down so I took it out of town and got it up to about 95. On the way back I found the leak when the lower radiator hose let go! This was a loooong time ago.

They're pretty tough ,smooth running engines like most Pontiacs.

The "lifter problems" was generally due to lack of oil to the rocker arms which got there oil through the studs whose passages would get plugged up from lack of maintenance,
(timely oil changes, road draft tube cleaning).

The valve train would start to wear and ticking would start and the uneducated will tell you the lifters are bad.

The worst to deal with on these are the rope front and rear main seals.
there is an article at http://www.pontiacsafari.com/ on converting the front rope seal to the later National 332062 seal.

JMHO
Hope this helps, Bud

Also on a side note, I'm putting an LS engine in a 98 S10 and its not as easy as some would lead you to believe.

I'd use a bottle of ZZDP when doing an oil change. Modern oils don't have enough zinc to keep the original flat tappet cam and lifters lubed as needed.

the front seal is a cork seal not rope. old dried out seals will leak but if you soak NOS ones in oil for a while they live longer.

Good point about oil changes and road draft tube maintenance being critical

good thing is that the 56 lifters all interchange with later ones.

also over time. the rocker nuts will loosen and back off. if over time they become too loose or wont stay tight, chevy ones work just as well.

Thanks for the advice guys, thats pretty much what I was thinking. Problem with these older cars is its getting hard for younger guys to dig up info on them, except for folks like yall. When I hear things like this lifter deal I always try to get some different opinions.

Any other way to do the rocker oiling? All the aftermarket rockers seem to want new 7/16" studs.

If I remember right the early engines, like 55-58, had a water distribution tube in the heads that sometimes rusts out and is hard to replace. That was because of the reverse flow in the early engines.

push rod oiling was used after 64? so you can get a set of later push rods and lube the valve train from both ends.

the water distribution tubes were brass or stainless(?) the NORS ones were also brass or stainless and show up occasionally on ebray

the difficulty is that when trying to remove them they sometimes rip apart fairly easily.

as for the rockers.... later ones only fit 68(?) and later engines, the earlier ones fit from 55-67(?) and wont work. the geometry is all wrong and that of course makes them all but extinct. better to collect up a few sets of used ones and sort through them for serviceability and rocker ratio.

factory ratio specs were 1.50 to 1 but often even brand new factory new ones were anywhere from 1.42 to 1.58 to one. so sort them for serviceability, uniform ratio and if you get enough, see if you can get some that are on the high side of the ratio spectrum.

the balls and nuts are same as factory chevy small block I think.

be carefull about replacing rocker arm studs. I believe the factory ones are pressed in, replacement ones are screw in and cutting threads may introduce metal particles into the oil system and may block off the hole in the center of the stud. also the rockers are lubed through a HOLLOW pressed in stud so replacement studs must also be hollow.

best to pull the head if your going to do threaded studs.

also some felpro gaskets seem to be mistaken in their application range. I got a set that were marked to fit a 55-59.... they actually only fit a 59. I don't recall what the deal was but shop wisely. better to buy a complete engine gasket set.

flush your cooling system out completely, mix distilled water and CLR and run it through your system for a good hour then drain it and flush it.

always replace the freeze plugs. if one is going bad the rest are too. Its a real PITA to do the ones behind the flywheel on auto trans cars too but once its done you can breathe easy for a few years. . when you get the freeze plugs in the side of the block out; reach down inside the block jacket to see how much rust and sediment has built up. vacuum it out, get creative with the vacuum and hose set up to remove as much if not all that you can. Get a coat hangar or electrode wire to dig around and loosen up all the rust and build up in the bottom of those jackets. suck it all out before you install new freeze plugs. Use a good quality block sealer to re seal the block befor you add in your antifreeze. another good idea is to beg a pint of water soluble cutting oil from your local machinist and add it to your water/antifreeze mixture.

If your doing cam/lifter/valvetrain. also be sure to refer to the 56 maintenance manual for timing chain installation, specifically to timing chain markings vs. later markings, and be carefull buying oil pumps, 55-58 only there. watch out for shysters on ebay selling later ones. I took a hit from a bozo selling 57-62 oil pump. and it showed a pump, no pick up sitting in front of a NORS box with a 55-58 PN on it. Total BS.

Keep your existing '56 oil filter set up, its better than any cartridge replacement filter currently available for the later engines and can handle very high oil pressures ( 50 wt. oil in sub zero weather!!). I like WIX or Baldwin replacement elements.

I have 9 sets of GM part # 522974, Kit - Valve rocker arm NOS for sale. http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...ghlight=522974


The stud oil balls have a wider than necessary for the stud to pass through opening in the center of the ball to help with oiling.

If you do decide you want a spin on filter remove the filter mount from any later model Pontiac V8 and bolt it directly to your '56. No need to buy an "adapter". I got mine for $5 at a junk yard. Came off of a '77 400 inch Pontiac V8.

That's not the problem. '56 pushrods are already hollow, to deliver oil to the pushrod seat of the rocker. The problem is that the early rockers don't have a hole in the rocker's pushrod seat to allow oil to pass through and run down to lube the rocker's ball pivot.

I think the 64-67 rockers had the hole, all the replacement ones I ever came across had the hole (but its been since the early 80's)

I did not know that Kanter carried the rocker ball and push rod . I wonder if those rockers have the hole?

The newer rockers with the hole at the push rod will give more oiling. But I think doing double oiling may be part of the reason I see low idle oil pressure. More places for the available oil to go at idle and the pressure is low.

What is it that you were suggesting about the timing?
It's the same as any other Pontiac from the one's I've
worked on unless I'm missing something. Thanks and didn't mean to highjack.

GT.

Its the later rockers that have the hole, The push rods are as Jack said they are the same.

I'm pretty sure its not going to loose you oil pressure although if your engine is sludged up drain back may be a problem but that's not caused by

Blue ghoast

I read in HPP that some time around the late sixties that something changed about the timing marks on the sprockets or the procedure about matching the dots on the sprockets. I ran into this when I bought another 55 that had some work done to it and it would no longer start. I found out that the gearset was installed 180 degrees out

But those rockers can't be used on '55-60. There aren't any '55-60 rockers available with oil holes.

I have a 288 and I am running rocker arms with the holes in them and hollow pushrods. (I ordered New replacement pushrods from summit racing btw because I kept destroying the stock ones). I still have the stock hollow studs in the heads. I can tell you at idle the oil pressure gauge on the dash never gets above 15lbs. When running down the road it is about 35-40 lbs.

The stock rocker studs are 3/8". So what I did was order a set of replacement rocker arms,balls, and nuts from Falcon Global on the internet for a 55 Pontiac. They came with holes in the arms, the balls were solid, and the nuts are not self locking. None of this is correct for 1955. (I contacted them to tell them). Then I ordered replacement hollow pushrods from summit racing based on the stock length and end type. Then I installed the pushrods, rocker balls, rocker arms, non-locking nuts, then sbc crimped lock nuts to jamb lock them. I am still using the stock lifters because I cannot get a direct answer/agreement on what will work on the 1955. They have a different oem part number than the other years.

I am running 5w-30 full synthetic with zddp additive.

I do recall clearly purchasing NORS rocker arms for a 347 back in 83 from NAPA. they fit with out problems. They had the oiling holes. And there was no change in my oil pressure. In fact after replacing a few and having no problems I went ahead and replaced the rest of them. I always thought that you cant have too much oiling going on in the top end. Never ran out of oil in the bottom end because it had an 8 qt capacity. My pressure was about at 20 psi +/_ at idle and around 45 psi at 2600 rpm's.