lights on with wipers
 

As you probably know most states now require your headlights be on whenever your wipers are on. Does anyone know how to get the lights on a 1964 GP to come on with the wipers? The wiper motor always has voltage when the key is on and the switch GROUNDS the motor. I thought I had it figured out by using a relay and grounding the relay with the wiper switch. With the plug disconnected from the wiper motor everything worked great but when the plug is inserted back in the motor the relay stays engaged and the lights stay on all the time. Evidently the relay must ground through the motor windings. Any thoughts?

Pure and simple.... just pull the headlight switch on. These aren' t the cars of today that have rain sensitive wipers, and it would be a PITA to convert to that or change the wiring in your car to get it to work...... as you've already found out.

It could short out the wiring and your GP could catch fire when you least expect it.

Like GT182 said. Not worth the hassle. No one observes that law anyway. At least not here in the South.

The best part is not many people know, or think about is that, using turn signals, and headlights while it's raining is self preservation, so the other people on the road with you can see you. There used to be a safety slogan years ago that was, "Be safe, be seen", lots of truth there. Using your turn signals let others know what your intentions are ahead of time to avoid 2 vehicles trying to occupy the same piece of real estate, at the same time.

Why there is so much resistance to making your drive, as well as the people you share the road with safer, is completely beyond me.

Not many people reading this have driven an 18 wheeler, so they don't know how difficult it is to see a dark colored vehicle with all the spray from 18 wheels, making a car blend in with the road surface. Think about the last time you overtook a 18 wheeler how it obstructed your windshield with all the excess spray from the wheels. After you pass the truck, amazingly you can see again. The truck driver sees that spray, all the time, it travels with him.

Still people wonder why a truck may change lanes while they're right there, but it's raining, and they resisted turning their lights on to be seen by the driver of the truck. People may be signing their own death certificate by not turning their lights on in inclement weather, or not using their turn signals consistently. A 2500-3500 lb automobile doesn't fare very well when it contends with an 80,000 lb semi.

BTW, most drivers don't use their lights, or turn signals anywhere in the US, it's not just a southern thing by a long shot.

I used to love driving, now on todays highways I'm getting to dislike it, and find myself driving on secondary roads rather than highly used highways or thruways just to avoid all the moronic drivers, and possibly avoid an accident.

:focus:

" no one observes the law anyway" only makes me want to do it more. What a STUPID thing to say. You are probably one of the people that makes me guess where they are going instead of signaling too. Why bother having brake lights either? It makes a great game seeing if you can get your nicely restored car home without some inattentive idiot running into it. Hope you play well.

I don't think it was a stupid thing to say and I think you over reacted. The statement is a fact, most do not observe the law anyway AND, police do not enforce it.

Let's be honest, cops don't enforce speed limits, illegal lane changes, people backing up into traffic (missed on-ramps are my favorite), running red lights, not coming to a complete stop, failure to follow at a safe distance, impeding the flow of traffic, traveling too fast for conditions, moving over for a police or emergency vehicle, not turning on your headlights 1/2 hour after sunset (and driving around in the dark with no lights), passing in no passing zones, dimming high-beam headlights when encountering oncoming cars, etc., etc..

And of course you follow all rules? Never speed? Always come to a complete/full stop at a light & stop sign? and making a right hand turn on Red? None of us do.

Have you added a 3rd brake light to your car so others can see you better? Converted to LED's which are much more brighter & visible? Upgraded headlights? And of course if you haven't added disc brakes and a dual master cylinder then it's just a matter of time before that idiot in front of you jacks up on his 4-wheel disc braked car which stops more like on a dime, and you pop him in the rear because drum brakes don't cut it.

I get that you are thinking safety and trying to rig the wipers to the headlights - even Detroit hasn't done that yet and I too, as a truck driver, would welcome that change because as Sirrotica pointed out, a grey car hides real well in the tire spray thrown up by a tractor-trailer and with water running over your side mirrors, I too have come close to taking out an idiot who has not obeyed the law. BUT, these laws are meaningless when law enforcement does not enforce the laws. So "why bother" was both sarcasm and statement because people simply don't bother and cops don't bother either as they are just as much the law breakers as the motoring public - I see it all the time.

If it were me, perhaps run a relay off the wiper motor plug when it powers on, then the relay trips a 12V power source that you have hooked up to it, sending power to an auxiliary set of period correct, or period looking driving/fog lights. In this way you would not be modifying either your factory headlight/wiper switch and wiring. Many add-on items often use a relay which take a minimum load to power it, and than acts as a switch to a source 12V power going in and then back out and you could add an inline fuse to protect the power source you take off of your wiper motor going to the relay.

Really should be simple if you are willing to add the extra lighting and not mess with your factory headlights or wiring.

As a matter of fact I have added disc brakes, dual master cylinder, up graded headlights, seat belts, radial tires and I am in the process of going to LED's. Both our every day cars have headlights that come on with the wipers and one of them is 9 years old. Maybe where you live the police let you do whatever you please but not here. You're right. I don't always obey the speed limit and maybe sometimes I may push the "yellow" light until it's red but I believe in safety devices. They help compensate for my screw ups and yours. I always wear my seatbelt and that seatbelt and the air bags saved my life when another driver had a heart attack, crossed the center line and hit me head on. Oh and as for attaching a relay to the power wire on the wipers. The power to the wiper motor is live all the time the key is "ON". You wouldn't be able to shut them off.

Don't want to butt in here but...
DogMeister originally said "No one observes that law anyway." in reference to the wiper/headlamp usage.
Goatracer1 quoted him as saying "No one observes the law anyway"...
That's a big difference I think.

He said THE law. He also goes on to list a bunch of laws that people don't, to quote him , obey anyway. I happen to like updating my car. I also added electronic ignition and if I was going to be able to drive many more years I would convert it to fuel injection. I didn't want to turn the lights on with the wipers to just obey the law. I can obey the law by reaching down and pulling out the headlight switch. I just thought it would be something interesting to do. That's why I have Stereo, Blue Tooth, USB port. In my other car I added AOD trans. To make the car more interesting and fun. If you want to keep your car all original that's fine too. I drive my car a lot and want as many updates as possible.

Can you draw a diagram how you wired it?

I think you are correct on the relay to use the grounding but I would use the ground at the wiper?
Probably have to use a separate power circuit to power the lights from relay.
Possibly a diode to keep feedback from keeping relay working?

GoatRacer & John:

If one of you could verify that the both the wires on the wiper switch have battery voltage on them when the wipers are off and the key is on I think I've drawn a circuit that will work. It will require two small diodes, a Bosch style relay and an automatic reset circuit breaker (to mimic the one in your headlight switch). Probably less than $25 worth of parts.

Probably need to know if it's a 1 speed or 2 speed wiper.

Bill not sure on both having voltage. Not familiar with the 64's.
Later Firebirds I think ground through the switch housing which grounds to the chassis.

From 64 schematic, I would think possibly one could use the fuse as the 'source' point for the relays?
The switch grounds the wire to let 12 volts go to ground through the fuse.

:confused:

The car has 2 speed wipers. There are 3 wires at the wiper motor. One is live with the key in "ACC" and "IGN". 2nd grounds through the wiper switch. At this time I don't know where the 3rd goes. I installed a relay as a test with power and feed to 12 volts, output to lights and ground to wiper switch. All worked well with the wiper motor unplugged. When I plugged the connector into the motor the lights wouldn't go out. Evidently the relay would ground through the motor windings.

First Things First
 

I am not a bonified electrisherman.

My caveman thinking would be to make a coil that generates enough power to trip a bosh relay. Do know that most bosh relays require very little volts/amps to work. How little I don't know. Also don't know how many feet of magnet wire it would take, wrapped around the wiper hot wire, to create enough seperate current to trip a relay. Do know that you can put loops in a hot wire to increase ouput of the wrap wire. The seperate current generated would have it's own +/- (independant of car power) and only work when wipers were running.

Just thinking out loud and please ignore if nonsense
Clay

ps
Just found a few gadgets/trinkets to experiment and see if this is even plausible

Here is my idea. Should work with 2 speed wipers of 64 Pontiacs (and a lot more).

The diodes could be any 1N400x (where X = 1 thru 7) diodes. Under $1 each.

I may have the colors swapped for high and low speed wires on the wiper switch, but it will make no difference in the operation of the circuit.

The circuit breaker (under $5 at NAPA) mimics the operation of the circuit breaker built into the light switch.

The relay should be about $5 and available at your FLAPS. Get a socket for the relay. It'll make hooking up the wires easier.

That is probably for the windshield washer button?


What colors are the wires?


:confused:

Here's a schematic from SM:


http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...1&d=1601659858




Goatracer1, can you check voltage at the wiper fuse to see if it has power only when on?


:)

Bill, it might work.
Here's the schematic for the 'parking' of the wipers.


http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...1&d=1601660528


The power still goes through the wiper (and not the switch) until the parking pawl disconnects ground. If the diodes don't let 12 volts back into the wiper (keeping it rotating) it could work.


:)

Bill and John
 

Key 'ON' wipers off the OP is getting enough ground now, back through the wiper mechanism, to trip the relay and make the lights stay 'ON'. That is with wipers OFF.

Looks to me like the two diodes will allow the same ground path that he's having a problem with now.. That's through the wiper motor not the wiper switch.

Pretty sure (not positive) the terminals for wiper speeds are only a small portion of the ground needed for the wiper motor to run.

Clay

My 64 Pontiac schematic shows the wiper switch to wiper motor wires as black and light blue. It does NOT say which is low speed and which is high speed. I drew them in those colors in my drawing above.