Supercharged Buick V6 starter on a Pontiac?
 

Just put a set of Doug's RP headers on my '66 GTO. Went to install the stock starter and see that there's maybe 1/4" clearance to the solenoid with one of the tubes. Not good. So I look to see what's what in the world of mini-starters. I find all the usual suspects, which are of course made from various Japanese OEM starters with a billet adapter. I also found the RobbMc unit which looks suspiciously like it started life as a late-model Delco. But it's $270! Then I look in my WAI catalog since there are lots of photos in there... and lo and behold, I find this listing for a 1.7kW gear-reduction unit to fit traditional Pontiac V8's. And it looks OEM. Hmmm. I did a cross-reference on the p/n and it's for supercharged Buick V6's, like the Grand Prix GTP and Bonneville. There's a cr@pload of those things out there for under $70 brand new, like this: http://www.motorcityreman.com/delcooe9000776.html

Anyone tried one of these on a reasonably high-compression Poncho? Anyone even know if they fit? The motor is the same one used on all the modern GM LS-series V8's. Only potential problem I see is there isn't much more solenoid clearance than a stock Pontiac unit has.

I doubt there's any reason to think an LS starter might fit our old Pontiacs.

At a glance, the RobbMC starter is deceiving. It's actually a gear-reduction starter, but uses epicyclic (planetary) gearing- thus the motor shaft is coaxial with the output gear shaft. It has quite a clearance advantage over typical geared starters with spur gears and offset motor.

I am running a starter I got from a guy locally. It cranks the snot out of my engine which is around 12:1 with a little cam. Cranking compression numbers are in the 215-230 range and it doesn't even notice. Here is a link to the website. He doesn't have one listed for a Pontiac but he will do one for you at a good price. Great guy to deal with and the starter he sells is the one you will see on his personal car thats 700+ cubes and runs 4.60's in the 1/8th on the motor. Give Mark a call.....http://www.houseofpayneperformance.com/home.php

I love my Robmc starter great customer service too

I didn't say the LS starter would fit Pontiacs. I said the MOTOR is the same as the LS units, with a different nose/mount, of course. The FWD Buick V6's mount the starter on the LH side of the engine.

The RobbMc starter IS a Delco PG260M-series, which is what the Buick V6/LS starters are. It just has a custom nose and mount.

just read this and let not turn it into what starter you are running . he may have found a good brand new replacement for the pontiac motor. if you do buy and install one report back if it works, the fit. ect

Most of the Hitachi style starters having interchangeable mounting blocks. Does this starter have this option? If so it could possibly be made to work.....

Well, you know what they say about being too good to be true...
 

I bought a starter to fit-check...

This would work IF the flywheel was 1/2" smaller in diameter. Anyone know if Pontiac made flywheels in any other diameters besides the "standard" one? Like maybe a 301?

The starter bolt holes are spaced correctly to fit, but the drive gear is about 1/4" too close to the ring gear. Bummer. The thing really fits nicely in there and it's ridiculously light compared to the stocker.

...suppose Drill&Tap our block Starter Pad is too custom.

Spacers?...

Can't do that because you'd only need to move the starter outboard .300 or so, which isn't far enough away. You'd drill partway into the original holes. Now, if you want to fill the holes and start over, well that's possible. But I wouldn't want to do it to MY block!

That got me thinking... I drew it out in Catia and found we'd need roughly a .750 spacer. That's actually do-able. I THINK that the window where the ring gear goes into is big enough to accommodate that much mismatch. The torque converter water shield wouldn't fit... but who uses those anyway? Maybe I'll pick up a junkyard starter and do some testing.

Don't know your compression etc., but I have used the small body 301 starter with no issues.

It is a bolt in deal.

I use a Robbmc on my race motor though.

Hmmmm.
I e-mailed him to see if he had anything for the Traditional Pontiac V-8 and he responded....No nothing for Pontiacs. :confused:

You have a PM. I just called Mark and he said its no problem, just as mine was. He has to change mounting blocks to make it a Pontiac starter. Give him a call and he will fix you up at a very reasonable price.

Filling Starter Holes: install Grade 5 bolts to full depth, cut-off excess, File flat.
Drill new hole, Tap. Take about 2-beers.
Easier than Circumference/Diameter.

Buick Starter: sounds like a junkyard effort, followed by Garage-time mock-up. About 2 beers.

301 Starter: Go to Auto Store, tell the counter CAD guy you need starter for a 301 what-have-you. Get prices for new, used. Probably the least risky pursuit. No mess. No beer needed.

Beer?
 

Correction!! Have time for lots more beer and price difference could buy lots more beer!

I'm still test fitting starters to use on my '60 block. I'm lining up a standard Pontiac starter drilling the inside bolt hole in the block but there is not enough material out to the end to add the second, outside bolt. So I planned to add a steel angle to the mid plate to drill and tap for the outside bolt. But if the Buick starter works with a .750 spacer, I could drill the inside bolt hole, drill and tap the block for a bolt in the middle of the spacer to secure it to the block and drill and tap the spacer for the outside bolt. I just wished I had buick starter. Which years are you talking about. I'm sure i can pick up something to mock up. Might just work for my starter adaptation. Good topic. Mark L

See the link in my original post. 91-2001 3800 supercharged.


And as for the beer-types...

The 301 starter puts the solenoid in the same location as the earlier starters. So, that's out, since that's where the interference is with Doug's round port headers. Besides, I doubt it will crank a 11.5:1 428 very well.

Filling/drilling new holes in the block... maybe if the engine were out of the car. But, that won't help me either 'cause moving the Buick starter outboard will also cause interference with the header tube.

Best thing to do is the spacer route.

But beer is good. mmmmm. Especially a German Pilsner like Warsteiner or Bitburger.

I have Ram Air Restoration exhaust manifolds on my Grandville; for extra space I used a smaller Solinoid off a 2.5 Iron Duke for a Celebrity application. Im told this year solinoid was an improvement over the stock ones which had some sticking issues when hot.
Do 301 startes also work or are the different then traditional Pontiac 350-455s ?

Mark just use the pattern for the t400 to 61-63 block adapter. The starter pad will have to be .25" less than shown in that drawing to fit the 1/4" shorter 55-60 block. IHI bell mount mini starter for 61-63 is available through Ames Spotts and maybe PPR as well. Its adjustable. It will also fit 55-60 bell housing but Pontiac Jack had to make minor changes as there wasnt enough adjustment for his GMC app. I am near done with my mock up plate/adapter. When I transfer it to steel I'll send you my "prototype" if you like.

Ignore the starter pad thickness dimensions I've scriblled on my mock up. The 55-60 block measures 1/4" shorter from timing cover face to the bell face. The distance from timing face to flywheel mount surface is same 55-81. BTW the t400 dowel center will be 2.325" from the block pan rail.