1960 Pontiac Ventura. Any help with numbers will be appreciated.
 

I posted my car find in the "Lobby", below is the original post if you missed it. Many of you have responded with kind welcomes and great comments, so many thanks for those.

Now I could use some info. (I did find some directions on the great wide web.)

I have 3 questions (for now)

My first question is the engine number. Some guide books directed me to the front right side of the block for a stamping. After brushing that area off I found the following info.

270728
A1

What do these numbers mean? It does not match the vin in any way. The vin is 360K5024

Is there another place for a vin connection to confirm this is the original engine?

Also, I found that this year of 389 has two compression ratings. How can I find out what mine is?

Not totally familiar with 60 but will try to offer some help. 270728 is probably an engine assembly number. The A1 identifies the engine (HP, Carbs, Cam etc.) in combination with a transmission (3sp, 4sp, HM). In 61 the A1 was a fairly basic 2 bbl with the Slim Jim HM. In total there were about 40 combinations in 61 including the export combinations. The A1 probably didn't mean the same thing in 60 as in 61 because 60 did not have the Slim Jim HM. You need a shop manual to decipher it. In 61 (maybe 60 also) the last digits of the VIN also appeared on the block but separated a little away from the other numbers.

Thank you. Your reference to 61 directed me in some new searches and I found the book I need.

Standard catalog of Pontiac, 1926-2002

A1 = 283 hp, Rochester two-barrel, 10.0:1 compression, 5 main bearing, Hydro-Matic. According to this book Tri-power could be added to this Standard Block for an additional $81.00. If I'm reading correctly, depending on the transmission combination ordered the engine code would be stamped C4 for the Tri-Power but may have been added to the A1 in some cases.

Cool side note, the F1 4bbl, M1 Tri-power and M4 Tri-power, Tempest 425 NASCAR 389s

No Slim Jim's in 1960. They came out in 1961.

I worked on the pair today. Pulled all the stuff out of the trunks, pulled up the mats and carpet.

YIKES! What a mess I made.

The red car has great floors but the trunk has heavy scale type rust and is paper thin with some small holes. The good news is the floors have only some surface rust. The rocker on the one side is poor (as seen in the past photos) and there is some rust through in the lower quarters and lower front fenders. It looks like the prior got very angry with the lower front fender while trying to remove it and made a huge twisted and mangled mess. That fender is pretty messed up. That fender also has some prior damage that goes back to the days of lead filler. The lead guy was pretty talented though I'll give him that.

The red car has been messed with a little over it's many years of life. Both front brake drum / hubs have been replaced and have salvage yard markings on them, also both have right hand threads. The one rear has left hand lugs nuts. This could mean the car did have 8 lug wheels on it at one time but no way to be sure.

Also the red car most likely came with a factory 2 barrel. I found what may be the original carborator in the trunk.

The gray car is a ghost. No chance in saving that one. After looking very close I can see the car has a U-shape from the impact of the wreck that transferred out the opposite side of the car. Little signs of waves in the opposite quarter panel and the trunk lid will not fit. The package tray is wavy and so is the panel between the rear window and the trunk lid. To finish the poor thing off... the floors and trunk are paper thin or crunchy.

Check out these great parts I found in the trunk.

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/...pspztpmiqb.jpg

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/...psvgnuhudw.jpg

See this link for engine decoding info, it covers 1955-60.

279728 is the engine number, not too important or meaningful. You have A1 figured out. There is a list of the codes in the Shop Manual and the 1960 Master Parts Catalog.

360K5024 is the VIN of the car that the engine was originally installed in. To be "matching numbers", it will match the VIN tag on the driver's side door jam. Decode of the VIN is:

3 = Ventura
60 = 1960
K = Kansas City assembly plant
5024 = assembly sequence number. They start at 1000 so this is the 4024th 1960 Ventura assembled at the Kansas City plant.

You got some neat stuff out of the trunk. :) Those spotlights are worth some money, and the S-W tach is pretty cool as well. I *think* it's the type that uses a special mercury battery in the sending unit that's unfortunately not available anymore, but there are companies out there that can update the tach and sending unit so you can use them.

The S-W stuff is cool. I wondered about the round box and if that was part of the Tach. The spots are way cool. Somebody cut the controls so they will no longer work but they make a great 50s look on the right car.

I'll bet there's someone out there who knows how to repair the spotlight control arms.

Is that long cylindrical thing an aftermarket fuel rail for the tripower?

That is my guess as well. The inlet has a Ferrell insert for hard line but the outlets are smooth for hose and clamps. Kind of cool compared to the nasty lines and fittings on the original. Not sure about the placement of the three outlets though.

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/...psyfkfvh6p.jpg

great time capsules!

I can't answer your questions, but thanks for sharing!!

Of course those nasty lines are the original and are available repro. They can be a bit of a bitch to get adjusted just right so the fittings seal up and don't leak. Not sure how the factory got it all tight on an assembly line. And some of the mess I have seen when someone tried to make their own don't look as good. To each his own.

I'm finding that the red car has been messed with a little but the gray car is definitely a great time capsule. It's a 70,000 mile, one owner original that looks untouched (other than a few missing brake and steering parts.)



Don't get me wrong, if those "nasty" lines are factory they are going back in the engine bay. If that is the way Pontiac did it, that is the way I want it to look. Aftermarket parts are cool to make a vehicle fit a persons own taste but I want this car to show what the manufacturer did in that time frame. (even if it looks like the back yard plumber did it.)

I like to keep things close to factory also. I'm not racing and I could get ticketed just fine with an old factory setup. It will smoke the tires (well - tire - it's a one legger)without much trouble. But along with that thinking you will need to see if the 60 still used the glass bowl fuel filter just ahead of the four way fitting. Earlier did and I'm not sure when it was stopped. But your four way looks like it has a NPT inlet nipple and has what looks to be a nonstock adaptor. By 61 the inlet as flare fitting. When you are ready check with rightstuffdetailing and see what they offer in repop fuel lines.

During some of my research browsing I noticed some with glass bowl filters. I'm unclear on the use of the filter for the 1960 model as well as I noticed the inlet tube to the four way was suspicious.

I was wondering if this Tri-power set up came with vacuum or direct linkage for the two outward carbs. This set up is missing the links to those other two carbs. There is, what looks like, a multi vacuum chamber on the center carb.

Speaking of vacuum, the red car has a large vacuum canister in the trunk. What else in this car would require vacuum other than the power brake booster? I don't see any sign of trunk release so I think I can rule that one out.

BTW, Brian R, your Skylark thread on v8Buick.com is very cool!

It would have been a vacuum linkage setup from the factory. A mechanical linkage was available as an over-the-counter accessory from the dealer parts department. I noticed the vacuum switch thingy on your center carb, it looks like the one originally on my '61 - I took all that stuff off, stored it in a box and replaced it with a mechanical linkage. You can get the reproduction mechanical linkage from Performance Years.

Do you mean the vacuum canister is mounted in the trunk, or it was just stored there with the rest of the things you found? They would have used a canister for power brakes, of course, but there would have been a second canister to go with the tripower vacuum linkage. It looks like a big High-C juice can, with a little vacuum hose connection soldered on one end, and would have been fastened to the inner fender in the engine compartment.

Thank you. I have restored a few cars over the years but the Skylark is the only one I went custom on. I got a little carried away but I tried to keep the body mods subtle to look like GM may have done it that way.

That's it, the High-C can, it was loose in the trunk with other parts. It looks like it would have been mounted in the engine bay somewhere.

One more piece of the puzzle. Thank You!

I got a questions for the Pontiac 8 lug wheel gurus. The wheels I have are painted a cream color over red primer. Looks factory but cream color? I thought the wheels were a silver gray. Could that have been special order to match the roof color? (the car does have two tone paint code on the data plate)

They were all painted silver on the earlier cars. There's a good article on 8 lug wheels on Fred Teufert's website: http://www.teufert.net/pontiac/8lug/8lug.htm (there are several pages to the article, hit the 'next page' at the bottom.)