Aluminum radiators
 

Thinking of putting a aluminum radiator and electric fans on my GTO.
But since the factory ones are held in with the plastic shroud it would not be there.
How are the aftermarket aluminum fans with aluminum shroud and fans bolted to the radiator support ?

Looking at this one with large 14" fans and no shroud.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/27308671217...MAAOSwi8xaOEFU

A 184$ cheapo but will get here the fastest.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/25480818798...ffUu4#rpdCntId

Then you have this one and I kind of like it. Looks stockish.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/351472321769


The ends are stamped, not square fabricated. The fan covers are made out of steel, not plastic. Its a 2 row but the people who make it says they are larger rows and cool better than a normal 3 row or even 4 row. This company is in Minnesota so could be USA made ?
The others are all in LA or Portland so you know those come from China.
Any help is appreciated. Really interested in how you attach the radiator to the car without the shroud. I am sure it simple but want to know before I buy one.

Cold Case and a HD Clutch fan cured my overheating. Huge electric fans never touched it.

I have a Griffin Ali radiator with a Mark VIII 4200 CFM fan on my race car and it works great. You need an adequate alternator since it pulls 44 amps on high.

Aluminum rad
 

Cold case, factory shroud , flowcooler, flex fan. Over 100 roadside temps, never see over 175 engine temp.

Of the various electric fans i tried, this is also my favorite! Perfect fit with a little trimming on the firebird. I sliced (lengthwise) 3/8 fuel hose for the shroud edges that contact the radiator, and used a couple straps of aluminum and pop rivets on upper and lower shroud to hold in place.

If mostly a street car, I am still a "fan" of the factory setup.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

I did a bunch of experimenting on this subject years back and had a nice thread about it somewhere.

In a nut shell, I've always had better results with aluminum 2 row radiators with 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" tubes. I've had Griffin, Be Cool, and Cold Case in various cars. All of those have been excellent radiators and have no issues cooling over 700hp on the street in Arizona.

As far as fans, I tend to favor factory setups. On dad's, if I could find that thread, I went back and forth with the factory shroud and clutch fan, and a dual electric fan setup. We tried a few things with the electric, opening the shroud more with rubber flaps, in theory to allow more air passage at speed, 2 different controllers and things like that. Came to the conclusion that more experimentation was going to cost a whole bunch more money because at that point it required a change to a different brand and setup from either Spal or Derail etc.... Some of that stuff at the time was $400 or more.
I'm sure there was something that may have worked, but didn't want to spend another $1000 trying to find it.

So it was decided I swap the factory shroud, clutch fan setup back on the car. Temps immediately dropped some 30 degrees at cruise, and even slow moving idle conditions were way better. When a mechanical outperforms the electric at idle and slow moving speeds I knew the electric needed some major changes in design.
Now I can't get the car over 180-185 degrees when it's 110 outside. Most of the time it cruises in the 170 range and the car actually runs cooler in traffic than it does on the highway, opposite of what you'd expect from a mechanical fan. We decided to just leave it at that, it's working.

If it were me Dragncar, I'd lean towards the 2 row Cold Case. They are still reasonably priced compared to Griffin and Be Cool, and they are fantastic radiators. As far as electric fans, that's up to you. If you start with a fan setup that's better from the get go than I did, you may have better luck and spend less money experimenting.

Not meant to bash electric fans, there are a lot of things I like about them. If I ever try one again on something, I'll spend the money and start with a higher end setup and go from there.

I like the Griffin Rads. I also like the Electric fans with the plastic mounting or support that cover the complete radiator. Whatever you do please don't put tie wraps through the cores of the radiator to hold your fans on. When wiring fans up it's nice to have a bypass switch to manually operate the fans. I also like to install a sensor into the water crossover to automatically turn the fans on a desired set point. Also use separate relays and fuses for each fan, in the event one fan goes south.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...17?seid=srese1

Large Griffin rad. with their widest tubes, two Spal e' fans. No shroud....street car. Overheating never a concern since I switched years ago. Meziere E' water pump.

All manually controlled. Gives total control over engine temperature either sitting at idle, recirculating while engine off in the pits (restrictor in place of thermostat) or street driving.

My radiator showed up today.
But the real question that has not been answered is how, once you delete the factory shroud that holds the radiator in place, "attach" the radiator to the radiator support.
The shroud is what holds the radiator in stock, it will not be there.
Any pics of what you guys have done ?
Thanks for any help.

Dragncar

I may not be familiar with your vehicle and model year but, for my 65 & 67 LeMans both, the shroud does not hold the radiator in. The radiator sits in a cradle at the bottom of the radiator support and a bracket from the radiator to the radiator support at the top. The shroud attaches separately to the radiator support. I agree with others that your best bet is to use the factory clutch fan and shroud setup as it most likely will outperform electric fans.

I don't know what you're working on but in situations like that when the shroud is deleted and you need a way to secure the top of the radiator, I usually buy an upper plate for something like a chevelle or camaro that simply bolts to the top of the core support and holds the top of the radiator.

Sometimes a little modifying or ingenuity is needed to make it work on a car it wasn't originally designed for but when done it gives a factory appearance and looks like it belongs, and doesn't look like a cobbled together mess. It also acts as a closure for the top of the radiator and seals off that part of the core support.

There are other models that use this style to secure the radiator, and they all vary a bit. You'll have to search around to see what fits yours the closest to minimize any modifying necessary. Most all of them are reproduced and pretty cheap to buy.

Bought my Griffin with welded on side mounts to existing support holes.

If you have a parallel flow radiator with dimensions similar to 2nd gen 'Birds, the Flex-A-Lite #295 is a good electric fan option. I've heard nothing but good reviews on it. Flows at 4600 CFM, has conical design integrated into the shroud which favors travel of air through through the shroud (air hates sharp corners or flat areas, just like water - that's why the CC fan shroud is garbage), and rubber flaps that are forced open at highway speeds to further aid in heat dissipation. And for 2nd gen 'Bird radiators, it fits pretty much perfectly on the core. The fans suck around 50-60 amps each, though, so to get full power out of them you'll need to upgrade your alternator and definitely install a controller. It's reportedly loud as hell, but then performance, period, is loud so you know lol

https://static.summitracing.com/glob...-298_us_xl.jpg


Here's the fan installed on a G-Body radiator, which has similar dimensions to 2nd-gen Bird and 2nd-gen GTO radiators:

https://hotrodregal.com/wp-content/u...6/IMG_1659.jpg

Perfect core coverage, not to mention the fan comes with an integrated seal around the fan so that there's nowhere for air to escape except where it's designed to.

That's a nice looking set up but wow!! "The fans suck around 50-60 amps each..."

Yeah those were the fans I was going to try next when we were experimenting with electric fans but the thought of diving in deeper cost wise wasn't too appealing when you aren't certain of the outcome. Those babies are $500 by the time they hit my door.

That's why we just decided as a test to put the factory shroud and clutch fan back on because that didn't cost a dime and I had the swap done in about 30 minutes. Problem solved with temp drops of 30+ degrees so never looked back.

No. According to Flex-a-Lite's own specs (attached below), the fans draw 14A each, or 28A together as a pair. And they make all that noise thanks to little thought given to fan blade efficiency. All the blades are evenly spaced which leads to noise. Look at any factory fan and you'll see the blades are unevenly spaced like the 4th-gen F-body assembly below, which I have on my '66 GTO. These GM fans draw about 25A each, or 50A together max.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/bBMAA...Dw/s-l1600.jpg
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...2&d=1693967130

This is the radiator and electric fan set up I bought.
I guess I will put the radiator in with my shroud and Perma Cool flex fan until I get it figured out how to mount it without the shroud.
If I could get some more pics on how you guys have mounted your fans it would be much appreciated.

Like I mentioned, to mount the radiator without the shroud, the best solution I've found is the upper core support plates that are used on Camaros, Chevelles, Novas etc..... They come in different widths.

That's how I did dad's GTO back when he was experimenting with electric fans. His radiator is also encased in the factory shroud and used to hold the radiator by bolting to the upper core support. With that gone, it was just as simple as bolting a Chevelle upper radiator support to his existing core support holes and it holds the top of the radiator as designed, and looks stock. Very easy to do. I didn't have to drill anything. In fact when he decided to go back to his clutch fan and stock shroud, it was as simple as removing that top Chevelle plate, sticking the radiator back into the factory shroud and bolting it down. Literally a 10 minute process.

Hopefully this will work out for you - you can see the flat area of the shroud blocks much of the core and thus air flow

Yup, I had a very lengthy thread on this very thing a few years back. Cold Case makes them the same way. Amazes me that radiator companies still sell this stuff.

I can tell you ahead of time to save you the trouble, cutting openings in that aluminum shroud and attaching rubber flaps to try and allow more air to pass through did absolutely nothing.

The really bad part about that design is just having that aluminum shroud flat and up against the radiator core like that. It pretty much just stops all air flow and what little that does get through really isn't enough to control temps properly. Basically what happened when I was trying to make that work was that temps would eventually creep and get to around 190 and stay there, and even with both fans running and going down the highway, the fans wouldn't shut off, I could never get it back down to a shut off temp and I wasn't willing to raise temps on the controller any higher, especially 190 for a shut off temp, LOL

Once those electric fans and shroud came off, stock shroud and clutch fan went on, I couldn't get the engine over 175 degrees no matter what I did with it and most times it would run in the 160's with no other changes (still same Cold Case radiator etc...). That was a real eye opener to me on how air flow efficiency through the radiator mattered.