[cgeise]

Ok - sometimes Im not to smart - but I need some help here - I know there are mod that can be made to e-heads - Tigers and the new PP to help it cool in the center - and Have even had some of you guys give me instructions -- for for the life of me the verbal stuff is not clear and when I look at the head it seems Im going to screw something up - so, can anyone post drawings of what is being done to help these heads - I think it would help a lot of us and seriously cut into the head gasket companies bottom line.

[60man]

Ditto...I am chicken to drill heads for the Langer/Rex cooling mod..
I have done a search and can't find any pictures..
I know John & I think Rex both posted them

[v869tr6]

Post #5 in this thread has pictures I used to drill the intake side of my E-heads. I hooked both holes together and run them to the inlet tank on my radiator.
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=620987

[Steve Barcak]

Based on your accomplishments, I am taking this tongue and cheek but for the sake of others...
It is not that difficult to understand or do. depending on your casting, find a place to drill a hole, then tap it for a pipe fitting. If you do not have a flat spot, you can put one in with end end mill. That area will be your inlet source. Then, route your outlets on the ends of the heads.

This may seem like a fairly 'new' idea but, I did this to my Super Chiefs on my 389 AA/Fuel Dragster about 11 years ago.
I got the idea from a guy in my class doing the same thing with his small block chev (same port arrangement ).

If, for some reason, you do not like the mod, you can simply put in pipe plugs and go back to the old ways.

In high heat applications, blown nitro in my case, and others, to have 'cooler' water enter the head inthe high heat area, you are extending the life of the heads.
I melted the middle out of a head a few times learning. I ended up teaching myself to tig weld and machine my own heads partly because of it.
As I move away from this port arrangement, I will not need to do this but, it is something to be aware of.
The idea, originally, was not to make more power, but, to keep the engine alive for the duration of the burnout and the run itself. However, it has to make more power too by keeping temps more even.
My egts showed it.

Hope this helps

[60man]

Originally Posted by v869tr6

Post #5 in this thread has pictures I used to drill the intake side of my E-heads. I hooked both holes together and run them to the inlet tank on my radiator.
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=620987

My Tiger's already have this hole as delivered from AllPontiac. I'm talking about right above the stud in center of exhaust ports..4&6---3&5

[cgeise]

Just a hole in the intake face is not what Im talking about --- there is a process of drilling from the intake face thru the head to either the cooling passage on the exhaust side OR a drilled passage next to the center exhaust stud hole --- to force feed pressureized water from one side of the head to the other and cool the area between the centered exhaust seats. On the e-head there is a small waterpassage there -- its my understanding that the Tiger does not have water there -needs the hole drilled -- On the pic I saw John M post on the bullet I see a mini manifold set up on the exhaust side of the PRO PORTS - I presume for the same purpose. As it is my understanding that the drilling for these mods is not to be done by the faint of heart I was hoping for some drawing that would give specific dimensions so as not to ruin any heads.

[Ron H]

There was pics and I believe a sketch from Scott Rex or John Langer in a thread about a year ago on this with Tiger's.

[60man]

Originally Posted by Ron H

There was pics and I believe a sketch from Scott Rex or John Langer in a thread about a year ago on this with Tiger's.

I thought so to Ron..
Can't locate any thing..

[cgeise]

Are the guys that know holding out on us ???????????????????

[Chris Petersen]

Originally Posted by cgeise

Are the guys that know holding out on us ???????????????????

I would say yes and no.

Here is the thread, you folks need to learn how to search.

The pics are no longer there, but I think I have a copy of them at home.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...picture&page=3

From the thread...

From Scott:
"BES drilled cooling holes that run between the center exhaust valves and are fed by a secondary water pump. I have had no head gasket issues since this modification."

"The picture below is of the secondary water pump mounted under my intake manifold. It draws water off of the CSR front water pump, pressurizes it to about 10psi and injects it into 3 holes drilled right between the center exhaust valves. The filter makes sure no debris clogs the cooling holes in the head (because they are kind of small)



Here is where the water enters the heads:



Another shot of the pump. The brass fitting goes to a water pressure gauge mounted on the back of the intake manifold. I can see it under the scoop from the drivers seat.



The is the second attempt at this, the first time we didn't have enough volume or pressure and it didn't help much. Langer and I both have this setup and it's really helping keep the head gaskets intact."

Pump he was using at the time...http://www.pumpvendor.com/Shertech_COMSV012D.html

Scott even said this to another member here..."If you need any help or have any questions just give me a shout.

(Also, you should have come over and said hi at Norwalk)"

From Langer..."The vertical hole in the picture right above the exhaust port goes to within 3/8" of the deck of the head. The three holes intersect this hole from the intake flange side of the head at 3/8" with around 1/2" spacing. The "return" side of the horizontal holes go to the stock water passage. The holes horizontal to the deck go around the center head bolt hole. My earlier version went thru the head bolt hole. The vertical hole is 3/16" and the intersecting holes are 1/8". The water to the secondary pump is feed off of the water pump on the "cold" side. There is no real reason to put a water temp gauge on it. The cooling system is conventional and really never gets above will say 150*. You cant compare a BBC head to a pontiac since the BBC has a spread port exhaust. We are still in the infancy stage of this modification. When we were making under 1100hp we didn't have the issues we do now. The pump can be had at MSC, McMaster Carr, etc."

[cgeise]

That is pretty much what I have been told -- although I may have missundestood the dimensions for the drilled passage location - I love pictures - It clears everything up. With that being said - they were talking Tigers - what about the e-head - and new pro port ??? It also sounds like one is feeding from the exhaust side - and Scott from the intake side ??? correct ??

[hill461]

does anyone have a phone number and a contact name , i would like to talk to whoever does this mod at BES
hill461

[Chris Petersen]

Originally Posted by cgeise

That is pretty much what I have been told -- although I may have missundestood the dimensions for the drilled passage location - I love pictures - It clears everything up. With that being said - they were talking Tigers - what about the e-head - and new pro port ??? It also sounds like one is feeding from the exhaust side - and Scott from the intake side ??? correct ??

I will have to dig up the pictures tonight. For the new pro-port, might want to reach out to one of the guys that have a set, John M. or Jim Robertson (SP?).

I have not seen it done on a E-head, but with a little welding, anything is possable.

[BruceWilkie]

There is also the insert mod that Calvin does that has shown very positive results. IIRC its only "new" to Pontiacs but proven successful on other high end motors.http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=697286

AP offers this option on new Tigers(Calvin does it for them).http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=703262 see Robert C's post #11


I've been playin with a junk 6x head and found some interesting things in the water jacket centerbolt area. Looks like I might be able to put the center exhaust exit above the center bolt (short stud like the other two on that side basically need to use the existing port floor at the stud boss milled to same height as the existing short bosses. It would require cut back port and new flange made) without hitting water. With exhaust above the stud less heat can transfer to it. There is also room on the iron head to put a 1/2" od tube next to the valve cover rail without getting into the stock center exhaust port or stock stud boss.
Before drilling anything I did a bit of probing with bent paperclips in the water passages and rough measuring with them. If I had hit something I could've tapped the hole and filled it with a threaded plug... aluminum you could do same or weld. (This stuff works great on aluminum
http://www.aluminumrepair.com/video_new.asp http://www.aluminumrepair.com/ not the junk you used to see at trade shows not too long ago)

Every head type/brand is going to be different but its not terribly hard to figure out where passages may or may not be or could be made.

[Region Warrior]

What cgiese is refer'n to is external water lines to center ports(intake side) between 3/5 and 4/6 ports.
Dont have a home computer to upload. And here at work is blocked.
This is as much as can get away with...but thier(little high) center on center.

[cgeise]

Yep - -there seems to be a "from the intake side" program -- and a "from the EX side " deal and the pics John has on the bullet shows 3 entry points on the exhaust side -- or they could be exit points ???

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by Region Warrior

What cgiese is refer'n to is external water lines to center ports(intake side) between 3/5 and 4/6 ports.
Dont have a home computer to upload. And here at work is blocked.
This is as much as can get away with...but thier "near" center on center.

I know he was lookin for the water mod... this is a less cumbersome mod and doesnt require a separate pump and lines/plumbing. See the 1st two links I posted(^^^post 14^^^). Either the insert mod or the water mod addresses the same issue.

[Region Warrior]

"See the 1st two links...ahh...no...lol

[Milepost]

Originally Posted by cgeise

Yep - -there seems to be a "from the intake side" program -- and a "from the EX side " deal and the pics John has on the bullet shows 3 entry points on the exhaust side -- or they could be exit points ???

Curt, I'm not 100% sure but I believe John's Pro Port reverse flow system is pushing water in at the 3 exhaust side locations and also in the center on the intake side. Water exits at the front and rear intake positions of the head.

[jm455ho]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

... aluminum you could do same or weld. (This stuff works great on aluminum
http://www.aluminumrepair.com/video_new.asp http://www.aluminumrepair.com/ not the junk you used to see at trade shows not too long ago)

Bruce
Have you used this repair method yourself? Does it work as advertised? The video looks very interesting.