[nUcLeArEnVoY]

Hey Poncho gang,

One of my biggest motivating drivers is the build I want to do on my '79 T/A down the road. Full-on restomod with roadster shop frame, rack and pinion, Tremec 6-speed, blahdy blahdy blah. That crap. Won't be easy, won't be cheap, but it's a vision and it's a dream. Won't quite be pro-touring, since it won't have a custom interior, gussied up engine bay, and the exterior will have little to no modification other than wheels/tires/stance due to the roadster shop frame.

Anyway, rather than swap in an LS, I want to keep it Poncho-powered like it is now. Car is a factory W72 400/4-Speed and is very original, but the block is not original and is a late '76 XA 500557 block, which is why I won't feel too bad molesting it into a restomod. For now the car runs great, is plenty fun, and will definitely hold me over for the years leading up to this build (for which I'm collecting parts little by little).

Bear in mind, this is a very distant aspiration - we are talking years down the road. No telling if any of these parts will even be available by then, but I'm mostly just wanting opinions on whether this build is good for my needs. If anything, I'm putting out a feeler.

The goal: A streetable, well-mannered 461 stroker with good kick to enjoy every now and then and will be used quite often for long commutes/cruises (hence the Tremec 6-speed with .50 overdrive). Should easily handle a 725-775 RPM idle in neutral, reasonably maintain thermostat temps, and run AC without skipping a beat but just enough kick to throw me in the back of my seat. Car will very rarely be raced or operated high in the powerband. However, I do want trick parts and higher-end quality. I kind of want it to be overbuilt for its application, and I'm well aware that given the application there are a lot of corners I can cut, but I don't want to, so just let that go. Lol

Goal numbers: Around 10.0-10.2:1 compression, which is around what I'm calculating with my parts combo. Looking for at least 400 HP and 450 torque to the crank - won't complain if the build ends up making more. Just trying to remain conservative. Motor will have Eddy heads.

Now for the parts:

• 481988 W72 block - was able to source a standard bore W72 block back in 2021 and it's been sitting in my sister's bedroom since then. It's been magnafluxed. There's mild ring wear edges, so I'm figuring a 0.030 overbore should clean it up great. The less boring the better.
• Edelbrock Heads - 87cc ones, which should work well since my motor is getting stroked to 461. Don't want any extra porting, just out-of-the-box flow capabilities will do fine. I plan to get them from Butler with the Butler-built valve components.
• Head gasket - Cometic MLS. Would like total quench to not exceed the ideal 0.040.
• Holley Sniper 2 - Will be an EFI-converted build and will utilize Hyperspark timing control. This is why I don't want an overly wild camshaft, since a monster cam could confuse the fuel maps.
• Hydraulic Roller cam - Aaaaand here we go. Here's where I need guidance. Took me awhile to figure out what kind of cam I want. Definitely going roller cam, don't want to do a flat tappet. That being said, I don't want to overcam the engine and sacrifice streetability. However, at the same time I don't want to undercam it either, since that will not allow the better-flowing Edelbrock heads to breathe, as doing so would leave power on the table and even introduce the chances of pinging/detonation. After lots of research, I'm thinking a good choice may be the Butler CCA-BP8031SP. Specs are: 288/294 Adv. Duration; 236/242 Duration @ 0.50; .521/.540 Lift, 114 LSA with 1.5 ratio rockers. The cam reportedly works great in 455 builds, which is around what my motor will displace once it's stroked, and it reportedly yields good vacuum numbers (between 13"-15") which will make it very livable with power brakes and good idle. My rear end gear is going to be on the medium side (3.50), so I'd like the cam to be just a little more focused on low-end performance to make up for that, and this cam sounds like just the ticket for that. Please let me know what you all think - camshaft choice is where I'm seeking the most guidance.
• Stroker assy - 4.150" bore, 4.250" stroke forged crank, H-Beam forged rods. Pistons will be Butler-Ross 8cc flat-top twin valve-relief forged pistons. I'm thinking SCAT crank, since they reportedly don't have the serrations that could potentially chew up the one-piece RMS I plan to use. What do you think?
• Valvetrain components - The Butler-built heads already include stainless Ferrea valves and high quality components, and the springs will depend on what camshaft I choose. Don't want overly aggressive springs to preserve longevity out of the valvetrain, and especially since the car won't often be operated high in the RPM range where valve float would be an issue. Will be doing 1.5 roller rockers, and I'm going to splurge and go for Crower Enduros.
• Lifters - Been thinking of trying the new Comp Cams Evolution hydraulic roller lifters. Heard good things about them. If not those, then Johnsons.
• Intake - I'm limited on intake choice having a T/A with a shaker, which I obviously want to preserve. Given that I'm using EFI which typically works better with single plane manifolds, my only choice is a Hurricane intake, so that's what I'll have to use. At least I'll have a divorced water crossover for ease of intake swapping if need be.
• Exhaust - 1-3/4" longtube headers (haven't decided on a brand)
• Oil Pump - 80PSI Butler Pro-Series
• ARP Hardware - Main studs; rod bolts; cylinder head studs
• Valley Pan - Tomahawk Valley Pan for stock appearance but clears roller lifters
• Oil Pan - Canton stock replacement (do you think I'll need a larger oil pan due to increased displacement? Let me know!)
• Valve Covers - Stock W72 satin chrome valve covers. I want this engine to appear relatively stock - the heads and intake will be painted corporate blue to match the block and I want to be able to use the factory snorkel air cleaner. I have a feeling the Crower Enduros should fit underneath stock valve covers, but if not I'll get shorter polylocks or gasket spacers.
• Crankcase pressure control - Stock PCV system utilizing PCV valve in valley pan and passenger side breather tube going to air cleaner. I don't think this engine will be hi-po enough to justify anything like a vacuum pump.
• Cooling system - Hi-Flow water pump (haven't picked which one yet); Cold Case oversized 2-row radiator; aluminum heater core; 180 degree balanced sleeve thermostat; Flex-A-Lite #295 13.5" dual electric fans (advertise 4600 CFM); stock overflow bottle
• March Performance Sport-Trac serpentine conversion - Will utilize a serpentine conversion; the Sport-Trac is probably the most low-profile, non-bling-bling looking one out there.

And that's the build. For what it's worth, here's the other things the car will have:
*Will be mated to a Tremec T56 6-Speed manual trans with wide gear ratio and 0.50:1 overdrive - as mentioned, this car will be cruising on the highway a lot
*Rear end will be custom Ford 9" housing with a tru-trac 3.50:1 center section
*Alternator that comes with the serpentine kit is a CS130 type putting out 170 amps
*Car will have AC utilizing an upgraded Sanden compressor

And that's it. I'm well aware this is overbuilt for the application, but it's what I want and it's a long time coming. I'm mostly just asking if the parts combination will work and result in a good, reliable, streetable engine and not a pinging, overheating, gutless piece of crap.

Appreciate it, guys!

[kingbuzzo]

following with similar aspirations...however otto with gearvendors...

[Gator67]

I did something similar with a 70 Formula and love it. I have a thread in the 70-73 section on my build if you haven't seen it....535ci aluminum block, Sniper EFI, T56 magnum, 9", big Baer Brakes, DSE subframe and quadralink rear suspension, 18" Forgeline wheels, etc. I run factory style accessories and cooling system (shroud & clutch fan)...works great even here in the blistering heat. Tried to maintain factory vibe on the exterior and interior. The car is a blast to drive and has been super reliable.

I'm also building a '79 TA with my son (and for my son) with a similar vibe (I have a build thread in the 77-81 section)...but for this one we went LS (iron block 408, terminator X, Wegner accessory drive), TKX, Ridetech, Wildwood, brushless electric fans, etc). Even though this build is more budget minded (and we've done everything ourselves or with friends, except for the machine work) it will still end up costing about twice as much as I had originally budgeted for.

My take is that pro-touring is much more about modern performance oriented drive train, suspension, and brakes than the looks of the interior and exterior. Roaster Shop survivor series cars are great examples. I think these types of cars will age much better than super high end pro-touring builds where everything inside and out is customized (more glam-touring than pro-touring).

[napster]

Did the 461 with my '78. Not stick, has a 700R4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJAb0y576oU&t=49s

[nUcLeArEnVoY]

Originally Posted by napster

Did the 461 with my '78. Not stick, has a 700R4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJAb0y576oU&t=49s

Similar cam?

[nUcLeArEnVoY]

Originally Posted by Gator67

I did something similar with a 70 Formula and love it. I have a thread in the 70-73 section on my build if you haven't seen it....535ci aluminum block, Sniper EFI, T56 magnum, 9", big Baer Brakes, DSE subframe and quadralink rear suspension, 18" Forgeline wheels, etc. I run factory style accessories and cooling system (shroud & clutch fan)...works great even here in the blistering heat. Tried to maintain factory vibe on the exterior and interior. The car is a blast to drive and has been super reliable.

I'm also building a '79 TA with my son (and for my son) with a similar vibe (I have a build thread in the 77-81 section)...but for this one we went LS (iron block 408, terminator X, Wegner accessory drive), TKX, Ridetech, Wildwood, brushless electric fans, etc). Even though this build is more budget minded (and we've done everything ourselves or with friends, except for the machine work) it will still end up costing about twice as much as I had originally budgeted for.

My take is that pro-touring is much more about modern performance oriented drive train, suspension, and brakes than the looks of the interior and exterior. Roaster Shop survivor series cars are great examples. I think these types of cars will age much better than super high end pro-touring builds where everything inside and out is customized (more glam-touring than pro-touring).

Never heard of the survivor cars. Interesting, gonna have to check then out!

[napster]

Originally Posted by nUcLeArEnVoY

Similar cam?

It is the comp cam off the shelf version XE288HR. Difference is LSA is 110 and I went with 1.65 ratio rocker arms. I would go with the version in between @112 LSA.

[nUcLeArEnVoY]

Originally Posted by napster

It is the comp cam off the shelf version XE288HR. Difference is LSA is 110 and I went with 1.65 ratio rocker arms. I would go with the version in between @112 LSA.

How much idle vacuum are you making at 110 LSA? That way I can predict what the 112 can make. And does the EFI handle it well?

[napster]

I'm not sure of the vacuum generated, but I can tell you with the 110 LSA it stops the car very well. It has wilwood brakes all around with six piston calipers up front and four piston in the back

I have the same receipe for the 461 in my '70 GTO. It has wilwoods on it all around with four piston calipers front and rear.

I have EFI on both and it works great.

[Dragncar]

If you are only looking for 400 HP, 450 tq and stroker will get that as easy as falling out of a tree.
You could do that with a 400 and iron heads.
Stroker and aluminum, you would have to try and make it gutless to only get 400 HP.

[jhein]

My motor is a 467 with 87 cc E-heads (they are not ported but did have some cleanup of the bowls) and the Butler 8030 cam which is 236/242 on a 112 LSA. Stock intake and tuned Qjet. I get 15" vacuum at idle. It runs great. You'll be way over 400 hp with that combo. Definitely wouldn't do that with a 557 block, but if I read your post correctly, your upgrading that to the W72 block. Should be a nice motor.

[nUcLeArEnVoY]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

If you are only looking for 400 HP, 450 tq and stroker will get that as easy as falling out of a tree.
You could do that with a 400 and iron heads.
Stroker and aluminum, you would have to try and make it gutless to only get 400 HP.

So I guess my figures are a little too conservative... like I said I won't complain about more power haha

[nUcLeArEnVoY]

Originally Posted by jhein

My motor is a 467 with 87 cc E-heads (they are not ported but did have some cleanup of the bowls) and the Butler 8030 cam which is 236/242 on a 112 LSA. Stock intake and tuned Qjet. I get 15" vacuum at idle. It runs great. You'll be way over 400 hp with that combo. Definitely wouldn't do that with a 557 block, but if I read your post correctly, your upgrading that to the W72 block. Should be a nice motor.

Yeah, I already have the 481988 block on hand which is what I'll be using for the build. I'm starting to consider the 112 LSA now...