[1stgenbird]

Is there any source that provides the number of birds produced by color?
I have a 67 400 coupe, 4 speed manual, silverglaze exterior, and standard red interior.
It would be interesting to know how many were built like this.

[frankyboy455]

I'd sure like to know about mine as well, it's a 67 400 coupe, Coronado gold with gold deluxe interior...

[keith k]

If you want that sort of data, you'll have to buy a Mustang and write Kevin Marti.
Too much trouble for PHS...

[65WJ]

Originally Posted by keith k

If you want that sort of data, you'll have to buy a Mustang and write Kevin Marti.
Too much trouble for PHS...

lol it's to bad they cannot do some kind of spread sheet.
Until then the answer is NO.

patrick

[phoenixpnr]

Originally Posted by keith k

If you want that sort of data, you'll have to buy a Mustang and write Kevin Marti.
Too much trouble for PHS...

A good question, is how did "the Marti report" and for Mopar "Galen" simplify information like that when it seems so much harder for it to be done with Jim's PHS micro-fishes?
By the way why do we have available every VIN of RA IV 69 and 70 TAs as well as the rare list of all 69 TAs. How did those lists get compiled?
Being an outsider in the "hobby", do you have to be very close friends with Jim to go through all the documents to come up with finite data.
I think we all would love to know how many of our little rarities there are out there, none the less how many were made.

The only thing better then knowing how many were made, is knowing how many are left?
Through requests from PHS documents would give a rough idea of that, barring guys getting documents for rare blocks that they would like to sell or find the present owners.

I don't know what it would take, but if some people could get together with Jim M. and take on the laborious task of cataloging every - lets say Firebird for a given year. I say that because the guy that wants to know 67 numbers doesn't want to waste his time on transposing data for 69s.

I don't know what Ford's or Mopar's records look like in relation to the archive at PHS, but someone definately spent a good deal of time going through all those records to tell you how many BOSS 429s were red or how many Hemi's were Plum Crazy!

I don't think any of this burden should be put on Jim, but what's the answer?
Many people including me would LOVE to know the color/ option break down of RA I II III IV Birds 326 HO 350HO 400 or 400HO cars!

Ultimately the only person that can answer these questions is Jim Mattison!

I'll gladly donate my time to compile any 1st gen info from PHS, but I think it's going to take the work of many people, none the less those that Jim can trust!

[Stuart]

My understanding is the information that Marti got from Ford was already computerized, while the PHS information is just on microfiche. As a result, they are able to sort the data quickly while PHS has to go through their information by hand.

PHS does have information back to 1961, while the Marti information goes back to 1967. I don't think Galen Glover can provide production number breakdowns like the Marti report.

I've thought about how to get the PHS information into a computer database - I imagine you'd need a scanner with OCR recognition software to collect the data off each build sheet, and then they would still need to be checked one by one to make sure the data was read correctly as well as for hand written information about memos or special instructions. Considering how many millions of cars there are in the records it would take a long time to do.

[phoenixpnr]

Originally Posted by Stuart

My understanding is the information that Marti got from Ford was already computerized, while the PHS information is just on microfiche. As a result, they are able to sort the data quickly while PHS has to go through their information by hand.

PHS does have information back to 1961, while the Marti information goes back to 1967. I don't think Galen Glover can provide production number breakdowns like the Marti report.

I've thought about how to get the PHS information into a computer database - I imagine you'd need a scanner with OCR recognition software to collect the data off each build sheet, and then they would still need to be checked one by one to make sure the data was read correctly as well as for hand written information about memos or special instructions. Considering how many millions of cars there are in the records it would take a long time to do.

Too much for one person for sure! The best thing would to do is start selectively, by certain model VIN designations(IE Fbody or GTO). In the begining the 4 doors and wagons would fall by the way side.
It is possible, it's just going to require a joint effort of a group of people and Jim's blessing!

[keith k]

Originally Posted by phoenixpnr

By the way why do we have available every VIN of RA IV 69 and 70 TAs as well as the rare list of all 69 TAs. How did those lists get compiled?

I believe the answer is that that information was compiled when the records were still within PMD (not yet in care of "PHS"). It was done the good old fashioned way, by folks within the company who had a passion for that sort of history going through the records one at a time, and providing the data for the good of the hobby.

[Paul Spotts]

Originally Posted by 1stgenbird

Is there any source that provides the number of birds produced by color?
I have a 67 400 coupe, 4 speed manual, silverglaze exterior, and standard red interior.
It would be interesting to know how many were built like this.

No source I know of, but that is pretty rare and very cool. The silver cars with blue interior is the rarest in my opinion and convertibles with those colors are the rarest - deluxe interior a little rarer yet - add bench seat and fold down and I'm sure there are a few 1 or 2 of's.

I owned a silver hardtop with red interior, but not 400. I know of a couple. Silver/ red
with early GTO's seem to be seen more then the FB's. Red line tires on those cars look sweet.

In the spring Pontiac would introduce new colors to spur on sales - so those cars are the rarest colors since those cars were sold for a few months. In 67 the colors off the top of my head are Veroro Green (the least rarest-most popular - Plum Mist very rare - I think one of the blues was added as well - they had 3 blues in 67 - maybe one of the golds - there were 2 golds - Coronado and Signet gold

My very first FB was a 68 hdtp with autumn bronze paint - a spring color. Car had pearl interior, white stripes (4 speed sprint car with hood tach) According to Jim Mino, those cars are pretty rare, yet I've seen about 10 of them, though most of that 10 is gone. Sadly I have no pictures of that car

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by keith k

I believe the answer is that that information was compiled when the records were still within PMD (not yet in care of "PHS"). It was done the good old fashioned way, by folks within the company who had a passion for that sort of history going through the records one at a time, and providing the data for the good of the hobby.

Specifically - Fred Simmonds.

K

[Diego]

Originally Posted by Stuart

PHS does have information back to 1961, while the Marti information goes back to 1967. I don't think Galen Glover can provide production number breakdowns like the Marti report.

Marti has IBM cards or something like that, so they just computerized them into a database and now they can cross-reference stuff.

Galen Govier merely has Chrysler records that he somehow obtained. I have a few items that he has, and it has each option and the percentage installed in a particular vehicle for the US. Canadian and Exports were calculated in a different document, and I don't know about those.

Likewise, different GM brands calculated statistics differently. I know with Buicks, the colors are available. Pontiacs? Not so sure. I've seen some of the documentation that Fred Simmonds looked at and it runs the gamut depending on the year. As far as PHS is concerned, I think it would require an individual count for all the invoices to calculate things, but I also have seen other documents (from Canada?) that show a VIN and then option codes by a particular car. Those would be easier to tabulate but still would require going through each individual car.

If someone could correct me in my characterization of the Pontiacs, I would appreciate it because I certainly am no expert, but as I have been able to visit the GM Heritage Center, I personally have seen a little of what's out there.

[Keith Seymore]

I believe your characterization is correct.

As far as I know the only physical counts done on Pontiacs were the ones Fred had an interest in (either his own curiosity or because someone else had asked him to check).

K