[68WarDog]

Today I began removing my Elderbrock heads for some parts update, including springs , seals and guides if needed
For the past 8 years I have been running Crower Hippo solid roller lifters without issue
All street duty . Are there any better solid rollers that have come to market for severe duty? I'm hearing comp makes endurex . Are they better than Crower? Thanks for any recommendation

[Dave M]

I was thinking of trying their needle less solid rollers in my next build. Not crazy about the price though.


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[68WarDog]

Originally Posted by Dave M

I was thinking of trying their needle less solid rollers in my next build. Not crazy about the price though.


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Do you have a part number for the needleless solid rollers? They're probably better for severe street duty?

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by 68WarDog

Today I began removing my Elderbrock heads for some parts update, including springs , seals and guides if needed
For the past 8 years I have been running Crower Hippo solid roller lifters without issue
All street duty . Are there any better solid rollers that have come to market for severe duty? I'm hearing comp makes endurex . Are they better than Crower? Thanks for any recommendation

Why change if they are fine?


Show any wear?

[68WarDog]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

Why change if they are fine?


Show any wear?

No sign of wear , just exploring options for needleless lifters.

[mgarblik]

I like Crower roller lifters and for street use, the HIPPO option on needle bearings would be my choice. Solid bushing version is generally recommended for much higher spring rates than generally used in street roller set-ups. The only other lifter I could recommend that might be considered "better" would be the Jesel link bar lifters. They do make them to order for Pontiac applications. I recommend sitting down and having an adult beverage before looking at the cost. About triple the Crower lifters. No comment on Comp lifters. FWIW, keeping close tabs on the lash is what really extends solid roller lifter life. Use the recommended lash and stay on the tight end of the recommended lash. The pounding on the roller and needles from loose lash is what beats the hell out of the lifters. Once the lash is taken up, the lifter and bearings can easily handle the load. Also, weak springs that allow valve bounce kills the lifters.

[68WarDog]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

I like Crower roller lifters and for street use, the HIPPO option on needle bearings would be my choice. Solid bushing version is generally recommended for much higher spring rates than generally used in street roller set-ups. The only other lifter I could recommend that might be considered "better" would be the Jesel link bar lifters. They do make them to order for Pontiac applications. I recommend sitting down and having an adult beverage before looking at the cost. About triple the Crower lifters. No comment on Comp lifters. FWIW, keeping close tabs on the lash is what really extends solid roller lifter life. Use the recommended lash and stay on the tight end of the recommended lash. The pounding on the roller and needles from loose lash is what beats the hell out of the lifters. Once the lash is taken up, the lifter and bearings can easily handle the load. Also, weak springs that allow valve bounce kills the lifters.

One of the reasons I was looking at the bush lifters is because of running 220/650 valve spring pressures on the street , and running Crower Hippo for more than 8 years . Don't know how much street life they in them. Any idea?

[68WarDog]

Decided on the Crower Enduramax part # 66494x842E. These are bush & hippo

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by 68WarDog

Decided on the Crower Enduramax part # 66494x842E. These are bush & hippo

Those are very nice lifters and should work well. You are running more spring pressure than I anticipated in my first post. Jesel has stated that they prefer a needle bearing with lower spring pressures because the bushing lifters can skid under low load and eventually begin to flat spot the bushings. Crower doesn't say that to my knowledge. I assume you know Crower will rebuild your old lifters if you wanted to reuse them with new bearings and rollers.

[Dave M]

Originally Posted by 68WarDog

Decided on the Crower Enduramax part # 66494x842E. These are bush & hippo

That’s the same exact one I was looking at. Butler has them for $1089.95.


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[68hotbird]

I run the comp endurex and they are great lifters but the crower are as good or better. Either is fine in a street application. One watch out is the old comp lifters prior to the pin oiling option use the same part number.

[68WarDog]

Originally Posted by 68hotbird

I run the comp endurex and they are great lifters but the crower are as good or better. Either is fine in a street application. One watch out is the old comp lifters prior to the pin oiling option use the same part number.

Are the endurex needleless?

[JSPONT]

You guys are scaring me. I bought my cam used, it is tame but I run a turbo so with boost spring pressures need to be higher. I have pin oiling bearing lifters. about 15 k on the them, 580 lift cam. 250 seat 650 open, no issues, I adjust them once a season and most of the time, they are good.
I do not know if it helps or hurts, but on the street, I run solid rollers with a tighter lash than on the cam card.

[i82much]

Isky makes a Pontiac EZ roll and you can have the oiling hole added. Ace at PPR used to sell them but I am unaware of a current vendor. Isky customer service is first rate.

[Cliff R]

Steve, they are failing because of the "battleship" valve springs you use to keep those aggressive lobe profiles in check on a street engine.

If you were drag racing they would have been fine for nearly 21,000 track runs if I did the math correctly.

Reduce the spring pressure about 60-80 pounds on the seat and move to a cam with "softer" opening/closing specs and I'll bet you a steak dinner at your favorite diner you woln't be back in that engine again for issues with your roller lifters!.......Cliff

[Formulajones]

Yep, after talking to Steve and many others my feeling is that these solid roller lifter failures are directly related to spring pressures more than anything else.

Dad had a failure too, using the same Crower hippo bushed rollers with pin oiling. About as good of a solid roller lifter you can get in a decent price range, and 2 of them failed after about 5,000 miles. It was a tight lash roller too and never had excessive valve lash when checked, just one day 2 rollers decided they had enough.

Not really excessive spring pressure either according to quite a few top engine builders. These springs were only 240 lbs. seat pressure which I'm told is very common in a street application with a medium sized solid roller and exactly where Tony Bischoff felt was a safe area for a street engine. Nothing near the 270-280 lbs. seat pressure you hear about with very aggressive profiles.
Some others go extremely tame on spring pressure down to 180-200 lbs. seat pressure but I would have to guess, as Cliff mentions you would really need a very soft closing rate on the lobe or you'll have valve bounce on the seats and that's really hard on the rollers. That's not much spring pressure for a solid roller when you consider a good hydraulic roller will have 150-160 lbs. on the seat and live for 10's of thousands of miles. So with similar pressures it would seem it's the beating that the rollers take that do the damage over time.

I think Steve settled on 220 seat pressure this go around, which doesn't sound like a ton for a solid roller, so fingers crossed he has more success.

It's a game of roll the dice. Either run a tame solid roller and give up some power for mild spring pressures and see how long that lasts, or creep up the spring pressures for more aggressive cams and hope for the best. It really comes down to....... do you want to drive the car a lot and race a little? Or are you really worried about HP and ET's?

I've gotten to the point that if I want a solid cam, it's a solid flat tappet. No rollers to worry about and they run for 100,000 miles. If I'm dead set on a roller, I just go hydraulic, give up a little HP with the juice lifters and move on to other things.

[PunchT37]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

I've gotten to the point that if I want a solid cam, it's a solid flat tappet. No rollers to worry about and they run for 100,000 miles. If I'm dead set on a roller, I just go hydraulic, give up a little HP with the juice lifters and move on to other things.

My thoughts too.

Keep the solid rollers on the track.

[Steve C.]

"Yup, monitor lash, look closer at lifters if you see a 'decay' of adjustment. Considering the length of time, checking seat psi is a good idea too. I've run a number of SRs on the street without issues. The one engine went 225,000 miles."

HWYSTR455


"As long as you go with good roller lifters, with pressure-fed oiling to the needle bearings, there's no reason a cam that's mild enough to run those low spring pressures, can't last 100,000 miles."

Mike Jones
Jones Cam Designs
Denver, NC


.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

"Yup, monitor lash, look closer at lifters if you see a 'decay' of adjustment. Considering the length of time, checking seat psi is a good idea too. I've run a number of SRs on the street without issues. The one engine went 225,000 miles."

HWYSTR455


"As long as you go with good roller lifters, with pressure-fed oiling to the needle bearings, there's no reason a cam that's mild enough to run those low spring pressures, can't last 100,000 miles."

Mike Jones
Jones Cam Designs
Denver, NC


.

And if I remember right when Highway was talking about that, he was running very mild spring pressures......like hydraulic roller type spring pressures, which is why he got mileage out of it. So it had to be a very mild solid roller lobe profile.

[68hotbird]

endurex are not bushed. I prefer the needle bearings over bushings for street application. Bushings are great but due have some limitations as discussed in another post. I am also a fan of the comp street roller cam profiles make great power with minimal valve spring pressures and great life on all components involved.