| 04-06 General Tech/Discussion 2004-2006 GTO General Tech and discussion. |
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12-15-2003, 06:26 AM
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On Vacation
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: North Dighton, MA
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Just starting to read the article and the first paragraph in the "performance" section says this:
"Our best 0-60 was 5.0 seconds for the Mitsubishi Evolution, followed by the Subaru WRX STi at 5.1. Both beat the Corvette small block powered GTO, which takes 5.3 seconds to 60...."
"The quarter mile king is the STi, with a 13.35-second, 102.58 run, edging out the heavier, more powerful Jaguar XJR (13.58/106.81)" a fine testament to Tom Vaught as he works on that program. "The GTO comes in forth, with with numbers of 13.62/104.78."
LOL
How does Pontiac expect to sell these again?
Let's see:
They get worse gas milage.
They don't look anywhere near the part.
They're slower.
They're more expensive to ensure.
They're more dangerous in the hands of an average driver (rear wheel drive vs all wheel).
They cost more.
Yeah, I need one......
You tell 'em I'm comin' and Hell's comin' with me, ya hear? Hell's comin' with me!
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12-15-2003, 08:39 AM
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On Vacation
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Join Date: Jun 2001
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Rumair, how is it slow when it out 60's the GTO and beats it in the 1/4? 
On the street, when things are more slippery, how are things going to get better for the already traction limited GTO?
You guys ever street race before? Ever done so in a blown TA or Vette? Not from your answers........
I have, in both, and I would have beat a blown LS1 on the street with my stock LT1 Camaro any day of the week. I used to take out blown Mustangs all the time..... Its all in the start.
You tell 'em I'm comin' and Hell's comin' with me, ya hear? Hell's comin' with me!
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12-15-2003, 12:41 PM
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Chief Ponti-yacker
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kopavogur, Iceland
Posts: 990
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Here in Iceland we run better times than that on stock STi's... The fastst one runs 11.70 with some expensive "bolt-ons" (one of three fastest in Europe)... these cars fly the first 60 ft. on bad track even in rain 
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12-15-2003, 08:45 AM
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Boost Engineer
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The United States of America
Posts: 31,304
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Quote:
"explain to me this. The ford GT and Dodge Viper are compared in that mag. The GT beats the viper in accelartion but the viper beats it in 1/4 mile time even though the GT finished the 1/4 at a higher MPH how is that possiable"
TORQUE, TORQUE, TORQUE!
Most of the ET to cover the quarter mile is based
off the first 200 ft of the race. The Viper has
more initial torque combined with good hp and will
ET better even though the GT will be making more
HP at the end of the track!
Tom V.
__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught
Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.
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12-16-2003, 06:19 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 115
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Goatman & Goat8u2,
Just curious, when was the last time you've seen a 2004 GTO race? Or is that the 'Monday morning quarterback' in you showing again? If you believe everything thing you read, then here's some interesting reading for you.
http://www.car-videos.com/performanc...D1=280&ID2=268
Yes "according" to the times, the Evo beats the GTO until they get around 100 M.P.H.. After 100 M.P.H. the GTO blows it's doors off. Same story for the WRX Sti (USA).
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12-15-2003, 06:26 AM
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On Vacation
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: North Dighton, MA
Posts: 3,665
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Just starting to read the article and the first paragraph in the "performance" section says this:
"Our best 0-60 was 5.0 seconds for the Mitsubishi Evolution, followed by the Subaru WRX STi at 5.1. Both beat the Corvette small block powered GTO, which takes 5.3 seconds to 60...."
"The quarter mile king is the STi, with a 13.35-second, 102.58 run, edging out the heavier, more powerful Jaguar XJR (13.58/106.81)" a fine testament to Tom Vaught as he works on that program. "The GTO comes in forth, with with numbers of 13.62/104.78."
LOL
How does Pontiac expect to sell these again?
Let's see:
They get worse gas milage.
They don't look anywhere near the part.
They're slower.
They're more expensive to ensure.
They're more dangerous in the hands of an average driver (rear wheel drive vs all wheel).
They cost more.
Yeah, I need one......
You tell 'em I'm comin' and Hell's comin' with me, ya hear? Hell's comin' with me!
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12-15-2003, 09:23 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 32
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The STI is an upgraded WRX. It costs about 31 or 32k. Compared to the 33k GTO, no big gap there. The STI are also a limited run in the US. I mean they will only import so many and the number is far less than the Aussie GTO.
And as far as the regular WRX the GTO will have little to worry about. My co-worker has one and we took our cars to the local 1/8th mile track one day after work. I have a 2000 ls1 z28 with the only mod being headers and a cat back. His car was WRX with a piggy back ECM, blow off valve and intercooler hoses. Neither one of us have much experience driving at the track. Both of our cars are manual trannys. I owned him on every run. By the end of the night i consistently ran 8.83 which converts to a 13.4 or 13.5 by my calculations. His WRX ran a fastest of 9.6. I am assuming the GTO would perform similarly to my z28, mid 13s. If so it need not fear a WRX. The STI does come with about 70 more hp than the regular WRX
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12-16-2003, 11:58 PM
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Chief Ponti-yacker
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Prospect Hts, IL
Posts: 713
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Yes, I would rather buy a Turbo Neon at $20k than a $33k GTO. Then for another $2400 the car runs low 12's on street tires. Not sure if I buy that, but check out these reviews www.carreview.com/Midsize-Compact/Dodge,Neon,SRT-4/PRD_143713_1531crx.aspx
I would rather keep the extra 10k for investments wouldn't you?
Did not mention anything about looks, but the GTO (or should I say Grand Prix)is less of a sports car compared to the EVO IMHO. And that is NOT a sports car chasis or platform in comparison.
The EVO is factory lowered, and comes with Brembo brakes and its tread to wheelbase is better. It would leave the GTO after every corner.
Not a GTO hater, just disappointed in the 04 GTO.
IMHO, the GTO should of had its own platform like the Vette. Pontiac did not have to revive the GTO as another bastard child of two other cars like before. This is 04, not 64.
Mr Iron Horse, I do not have to see the GTO race in person, there are time slips that show its slower. Its not a girl you need to date to get to know, its a car. Tests show its slower in all the categories we care about, thats proof enough. And, when push comes to shove, the GTO dollar for dollar will get its ass handed to it by the EVO. The EVO already wins in the 1/4 stock. Who the hell on the street races more than a 1/4 mile and past 100mph? Stop light to stop light, the Evo wins, and thats what 80% of all street races are, light to light.
The post about the Audi was a twin engine Audi and it being the fastest street car. Not really a fair challenge for any car.
And $1200 here in the US unless its Nitrous, gets that GTO to probably do 13.3's instead of 13.8's. Its much heavier (3725) than the EVO (3260) or the other imports. Hp to weight ratio comes into play and 500lbs is pretty much 50hp. Then its competiting against AWD (Sti, Evo) so its only a highway contender to those turbo 4 cylinders.
69 GTO Convertible
(Future Twin Turbo)
87 GN
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69 GTO Convertible, 4000lbs
462ci, 606tq/569hp - 93 oct at 34 deg (207psi)
11.7:1, KRE H Ports, Lunati HR 282/290 w Johnson Lifters & 1.65 Scorp, E30, EFI, Holley HP + Dual Sync, 12-1 Crank Trig, 120lb Inj & 1000cfm TB, Torker II EFI Int & Rails, PTC 10" 0 Stat, Ricks SS Gas Tank, Magna 4303, Aerom EFI Reg, Aero Front & Wilwood Rear Disc Brakes, Dougs 1 7/8" Headers & Borla Pro XS 3" Muffs, Alum Rad & Dual Fans, 12:1 Box, UMI Control Arms & Viking Berz Fr + Rear CO Shocks, Hella UP28 Vac Pump
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12-15-2003, 09:57 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Altoona WI
Posts: 159
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Tom i understand that. I guess im just confused cauz the GT had a higher MPH and better accelertation from 0-20 to 0-100 but the viper still beat it. I just dont see how a car with a higher MPH in the 1/4 and better acceleration still loose. I must be missing somthing
Good luck at your car shows hope you win 1st in the Stock Compact everyday driver nothing special about me class. Or the i want to go fast but cant afford a good car so i buy this crap and put in a sound system cauz the bass gets my A$$ down the street class. but other then that. Nice Car
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Good luck at your car shows hope you win 1st in the Stock Compact everyday driver nothing special about me class. Or the i want to go fast but cant afford a good car so i buy this crap and put in a sound system cauz the bass gets my A$$ down the stre
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12-16-2003, 07:20 PM
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Ultimate Warrior
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Galveston, Texas U.S.A.
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12-16-2003, 05:33 AM
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Ultimate Warrior
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Westerville, OH
Posts: 1,441
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You'd rather buy a Neon than a GTO? Nuff said... 
Side note, has everyone seen the "fastest street car in the world?"
Saw it on a RICE program this past weekend. AUDI TT with 400+ HP in the front and 400+ HP in the rear...yes...2 engines, AWD, street legal. 0 to 100 in 3.? seconds.
"the Humbler...the Humbler...G...T...O!"
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1969 Judge (Liberty Blue / Blue, 4SPD)
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12-15-2003, 06:29 AM
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On Vacation
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: North Dighton, MA
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PS. The Toyota Pirus won. Beat out all the big names, including BMW, Caddy, Audi, Acura, Nissan, Ford, Volkswagon, and the list goes on.....
You tell 'em I'm comin' and Hell's comin' with me, ya hear? Hell's comin' with me!
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12-15-2003, 09:59 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Altoona WI
Posts: 159
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Good luck at your car shows hope you win 1st in the Stock Compact everyday driver nothing special about me class. Or the i want to go fast but cant afford a good car so i buy this crap and put in a sound system cauz the bass gets my A$$ down the stre
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12-16-2003, 09:29 AM
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 26
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GOAT8U2:
Out of all those cars, the EVO 8 is hands down the best value. And its all year round racing on top of that.
Here in IL, AMS (local shop)has the fastest stock block, heads and turbo Mitsu EVO 8. It ran a 11.83 in the 1/4 on street tires and bolt ons!! STOCK BIG 16G TURBO!!! Over 450 dyno pulls to date tuned with a wide band sensor every time.
My buddy has a 03 EVO 8 and had a 02 WRX. He traded in the WRX for the EVO, said they were not comparable for the money, even the STI. And for $1200 AMS can get the EVO 8's to run high 12's all day long on pump gas. They have over 450 dyno runs on the shop EVO 8 and their performance package upgrades are dialed in on these cars big time. They give the fuel maps to you in the fuel computer (AFC) for each package so its tweaked out just like if it were on the dyno getting tuned. You can not find that with the GTO.
The GTO with a blower would cost way more when you were done, and would not run an 11.8 on street tires, let alone street slicks. Due to the low psi it would have to run due to stock compression and the bottom end blowing apart, its not worth the money to try to compete. On top of that, the GTO would run even slower in the rain and snow.
The WRX is a nightmare to work on compared to the EVO 8. Pontiac dropped the ball here as I would rather buy the Dodge SRT4 Turbo over that thing, even if the GTO was $20,000.
What happened to that prototype I saw years ago in some mag? That was a GTO.
69 GTO Convertible
(Future Twin Turbo)
87 GN<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Awwww......I dunno about that mate!! Contact Bill Lee of Bill Lee Performance in Perth, Western Australia or Castlemaine Rod Shop in Sydney and find out what you can do to an LS1 for $1200 USD.
As for the racing in the rain bit, watch the Australian V8 Supercars on Speed....they race in the rain. Not like in NASCAR where they ***** themselves at a raindrop falling on the windshield. 
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12-17-2003, 08:12 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 115
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GTO_2004,
Some of these people "fear" what they do not know. They can't get it through there thick skulls that the times they're compairing are from a "PRE-PRODUCTION" GTO. Instead of seeing or driving the GTO for themselves, they're going to keep their "Monday Morning Quarterback" jobs. Or maybe they'd prefer the "bench racing" title? Bottom line is there's going to be people in the world that are closed minded. I could fully understand if a person saw and drove the vehicle for themselves... THEN JUDGE IT. If they still don't like it, so be it. At least it was a fair judgement on the vehicle. But to base their opinions on something they've read in a magazine. More importantly the magazine vehicle was a "PRE-PRODUCTION" vehicle. To me it seems some of these people are obsessed with this vehicle. Why would somebody "keep" coming back to a forum thats dedicated to the 2004 GTO and keep bashing it. Don't like the vehicle... FINE. Now run along and join a forum of a vehicle that you do like. You don't see me hanging around the cowboys forums just because I hate them. If they want to keep coming to this forum and continue to bash it to make themselves feel better, so be it. Next time they're going to complain that the tire stems are too long or too short. Or the oil dip stick handle is the wrong color. From what I've seen, I like the new GTO. Some of the things I would change like the split on the exhaust. BUT I'm going to wait until I can get the "true" numbers from a "production" GTO before I comment on the performance. Of course this post is JMO.
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12-17-2003, 05:50 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Down Under
Posts: 243
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how seriously embarassing is it to think outsiders that are reading in to these forums that have seen the GTO and are loving it, so they come here to the 'mother' of pontiac forums to find its "own" people bashing it. 
i went over to the evo forums just to see what they think, and i wasn't surprised with the exception of a few individuals, to find that the majority of people liked/loved the car.
a stark contrast to the bashing that goes on in here,
and that isn't just the evo forums, but the automotive community in general.
Australian RWD + American V8 - Now THAT'S what I call a "coalition".
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Australian RWD + American V8 - Now THAT'S what I call a "coalition".
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12-15-2003, 06:48 AM
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Ultimate Warrior
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: jacksonville, florida
Posts: 2,662
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how can the gto be slower when it pulls more mph than the sti? where did the gto's mph rank in comparison to the other cars in the test?
in the real world a race between a stock gto and a stock sti would be a joke.
97 Trans Am WS6
12.13 @ 114.6
M6, stock heads, stock bottom end
74 Formula 455
11.84 @ 116.33
3800 lbs., d-ports, 9" slicks
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12-15-2003, 10:27 AM
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On Vacation
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: North Dighton, MA
Posts: 3,665
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Wilson, I think your friend has alot to learn about driving...... If you think $1000 is nothing, I'll be waiting for your check......
Jon, there are several factors to consider when two different cars are being run. Weight, engine torque, tires, power adder, transmission, etc, etc, etc.
The high MPH is common on all superchargered/turbo cars. Also, manual transmissions tend to have a higher MPH. The Viper seems to pull more on mid range than the Cobra. Not a surprise that the Cobra pulls like a raped ape on the top with the DOHC and the supercharger.
You tell 'em I'm comin' and Hell's comin' with me, ya hear? Hell's comin' with me!
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12-16-2003, 09:22 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 115
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Can't beat an Audi? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ummmm yes the GTO did beat the Audi. Funny how you didn't mention that there are 9 other Audi's on the list and the GTO beats them. The GTO beats the Quattro from 0-70, 0-80, 0-90, 0-100! So yes the GTO DOES beat the Audi. Just answering your question.
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