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#21
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I was impressed to read that Summit (and Jegs) pulled speedmaster parts.
I know copying happens, and because I buy so little aftermarket stuff I had no idea this brand was a ripp-off brand. I seem to affiliate this company name with some aftermarket Pontiac heads; What were they copies of??
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1970 Formula 400 Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car. Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left. 1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing) 2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs) |
#22
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My guess is nobody at Speedmaster was even aware of the company name on the valve body. Obviously they are now, but maybe not when the parts went in the packaging. Likely just decided they wanted to sell a copy the valve body, sent a sample to a job shop with instructions to make a copy, and the job shop did exactly that. Speedmaster or Procomp seem to have their name on their other copies. So just lazy or no inspections together with the sleazy business practices.
Counterfeit parts are nothing new. My father worked parts in a Pontiac dealership 50 years ago and they had salesmen in all the time with cheap stuff in OEM looking boxes and labeling. They didn't but someone must have been buying that stuff back then. |
#23
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#24
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FYI,Jegs and Summit still show SM products on ebay along with other Etailers including SMs own site.I dont see them going away soon.Tom
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#25
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I've worked with Pete who owns Procomp/Speedmaster many MANY years ago and know for a fact he won't go bankrupt over this. If anything he may rebrand but won't go broke. For every 10 enthusiasts, 7 will buy his stuff because of the price.
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'71 Holden HQ Monaro - 3850lbs race weight, 400c/i - 11.4 @ 120 '66 Pontiac GTO - 389, 4 speed street cruiser |
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#26
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though ill still buy edelbrock heads for most stuff, i have 2 sets of speedmasters that i think are nicer than the non cnc eheads that use be 1800 through summit way back when. id most likely buy another set if i needed them. i guess thats kinda anti american but you cant beat that black friday sale they have. atleaat on certain things. ive passed on pretty much anything else they sell.
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http://performerrpm.myphotoalbum.com/view_album.php? |
#27
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A friend had a very good glass block business with his father. Glass block production was in a EPA grandfathered part of Corning n.y.,location think that's what he said for area. Production could be backed up this was 15yrs ago. So he decided with help of U Pitt.to get block made in China. Trips there etc. 1st Container perfect. 2nd not so good,3rd bad.So talking returns,then lawyers.Suit would be in China. He knew he was taken. Stopped buying...
Last edited by sdbob; 04-20-2024 at 07:28 AM. Reason: Add words |
#28
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This really isn’t about other copying that goes on in China, or here, or anywhere else. Speedmaster, a company with facilities in the US, Australia, and happens to have manufacturing done also in China, copied a small shops valve body, left that companies name on the part. Didn’t a very good job manufacturing it (like most stuff they do) and then they sold it as their own product for major retailer’s to resell.
There seems to be a bit of a disconnect about the connection between copying parts, and what Speedmaster did on this. Imagine developing a product, someone buy’s it and copies it, then they do a shotty job reproducing it, and resell it with your name still on it. Maybe you would rather just have someone break into your garage, steal some parts and buy it back on eBay? I run a company that sells equipment, and have a number of patents, I actually would rather deal with someone stealing something out of my shop versus what they did. Speedmaster has done a bunch of unscrupulous things in the effort to expand their company and for better name recognition. This boils down to very bad management and business practices at SM. Lots of Chinese parts you don’t have much choice in buying or using. But with SM product’s, which are almost all just copies with no R&D put into improving them, you do have a choice. Last edited by Jay S; 04-20-2024 at 08:56 AM. |
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#29
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People buy quantity over quality because consumerism gurus told them to. Any car can be made faster using hot rodded stock parts... Id much rather drive a stock looking iron headed pontiac in the 14s than a 11s Pontiac built with a pile of chinese knock off parts. I like old cars as time capsules, slapping a bunch of made in 2023 chinese casted junk on a 70s vintage car does not make much sense to me. Do we still call this a pontiac engine or a pontiac style engine? It may sounds a lilttle extreme but you get the point. Peter |
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#30
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I bought something from Speedway motors yesterday and couldn’t find any Speedmaster products on their site anymore either.
I bet some folks over at SEMA are feeling pretty stupid about the awards they gave Speedmaster. |
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#31
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I worked for a large American Chemical company, in ~ 2002 we saw a large and growing market in China that we wanted to expand into. We found a Chinese company to partner with and build new plants in China. In a 50/50 partnership, the new plants would be built by the Chinese company using our Engineers, Chemists, Scientists, designs and process. As the first plant was under construction, we found that the partner company was taking shortcuts and using very poor quality materials. This was particularly disturbing regarding high pressure piping and valves required for many parts of the process area. The business relationship soon fell apart and the other company stole / took everything from us. There is no useful justice system in China to seek compensation, so it was a big write off for us and they now had our tech and the first plant for free. It has been a running joke by those who know the details, around our company ever since. Many of us are retired so it is becoming water under the bridge now.
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73 T/A 455, 4speed |
#32
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Only way it can be stopped is tariff the Sheite out of the Chinese and if they want to outsource through another country, penalize them. The people in now are shills for the CCP.
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1963 Cat SD Clone (old school) streeter 1964 GTO post coupe, tripower, 4speed (build) 1965 GTO 389 tripower, 4 speed, driver 1966 GTO dragcar 1966 GTO Ragtop 1969 Tempest ET clone street/strip 1969 GTO Judge RA lll, auto 1969 GTO limelight Conv. 4speed go and show (sold) 1970 GP SSJ 1970 GTO barn find..TLB…390 horse?….yeh, 390 1972 GTO 455 HO, 4 speed, (build) 1973 Grand Safari wagon, 700hp stoplight sleeper 525ci DCI & 609ci LM V head builds Last edited by J.C.you; 04-20-2024 at 01:06 PM. |
#33
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Speedmaster hasn't ever used the name of their victim on their knock-offs before.
That would be like a pre-meditated suicide for a company selling in the USA. Best sense I can come up with is the logo got left by mistake , and they made a decision to distribute them anyway instead of scrapping the whole batch. Really don't understand how anyone in their ranks ever thought this would go well. It went from knock-offs to counterfeiting Which isn't too far apart , but counterfeit stigma doesn't market as well as knock-off stigma. Last edited by Baron Von Zeppelin; 04-21-2024 at 02:29 AM. |
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#34
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So the people
Not buying speedmasters will Be buying aftermarket copies of tiger heads and IA blocks instead? Or edelbrock copies of Kre d ports? There is copying everywhere as mentioned above . Companies that add some Innovation to their product line hide some of the copied items Just becomes it's made in America doesn't mean it is unique. Look at the 7 different branded hydraulic roller lifters Consumers will take their money where they want and manufacturers that exploit small Markets with higher than usual profit margins will be targets of copied parts. Ultimately that will Dictate what gets copied and sold Just my Opinion. innovation will get New customers that have to have the latest and best. Copying will Keep Prices low for Average consumer
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1969 carousel red firebird 455, richmond 5 speed 1964 540 gto 1971 lemans sport convertible 1972 Maverick under slow construction |
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#35
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#36
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#37
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Remember when Car Craft exposed all the Chinese counterfeit MSD products being sold to lowest bidder buyers.... I wonder what the difference is now that MSD's product comes from China... Things that make you go hmmm.
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#38
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Yeah I'm sure the "powers that be" will get all over it.
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#39
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Technology gets sent over to China just too get it built cheaper and make the company more money, which happens almost every time these companies get bought out by an investment group. Then about everytime time it happens the tech gets copied over there. After that if the investment group has too deal with copies it is pretty much their own fault. The investment group did that too themselves. Personally, I have far more issues with the bottom feeder reverse engineering that happens that describes what speedmaster has done on about all it’s products. The only reverse engineered copy of a Pontiac head is a SM E head copy. All the other companies that make and design cylinder heads seem too at least refine the design. I know there are some differences between KRE and Eddy D ports, they aren’t reverse engineer copies of each other anymore than a Firebird is a reverse engineered copy of a Camaro, or vise versa. I don’t know much about those Victor and Tiger examples, but I garentee Edelbrock didn’t just reverse engineer them from another head like SM does. It appears SM even copied someone else’s CNC work on the CNC offering. Then didn’t even bother to flow test it. Looks good.. ship it! Lol Last edited by Jay S; 04-21-2024 at 10:26 AM. |
#40
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But not a counterfeit - it didn't say MSD on the part , and probably not on the packaging. The transmission valve body had Broader's name/logo machined into it That was a king kong jump across the line. Makes no sense why they would stretch that far intentionally - and then use their SM packaging. It was suicide or sabotage. They won't die , but its going to be a huge economic consequence for them losing Summit and Jegs. The market has accepted knock-offs But doesn't look like they are ready to accept counterfeit branding That was a retarded endeavor to risk. |
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