[Floyd Hand]

Most people that bad mouth bracket racing don't have the driving skill to compete in it.

[larry davis]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Floyd Hand:
Most people that bad mouth bracket racing don't have the driving skill to compete in it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There ya' go "Masshole"!
That's some funny ****! "Masshole" I gotta remember that one.

[chiefbigb]

Good job Brian that is a hurdle I have never made it over.I cut a .502 last year that is my best effort to date.Brian

[David Holmberg]

A broken clock is Dead on twice a day...

Conga rats Mongo!

[Goatman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Floyd Hand:
Most people that bad mouth bracket racing don't have the driving skill to compete in it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OR, they just don't like it.........

Bracket guys are all the same. If you don't like their sport, its because you can't drive well.

If some of you guys would just go to a heads up race, not a street race, as some seem to feel qualifies them for something, you would see there is more talent in keeping one of those cars pointed in the right direction during a pass than anything that happens in bracket racing.

[Floyd Hand]

First of all I'm not knocking heads-up racing as I was racing heads-up long before most of you were born (started in 1955).

Below are a few musts to be able to do good in bracket racing.

No.1 You must have the mechanical ability to build/tune your car to run consistent run after run.

No.2 You must be able to figure your dial-in from round to round as track condidtions and weather change. If your 60 ft changes, you need to figure what ET the car will run during the next round.

No.3 You must take your car to the track more than once to see what it will run in all kinds of weather.

No.4 You must be able to cut good lights run after run. One here and there won't get you to the winners circle very often.

I'm talking pure foot brake racing here, not ARTIFICIAL RACING (all electronics).

Yes, in heads-up, you need to cut a good light and try to be the first one to the finish line. What driving skill do you need to do that besides cutting a light?

As for slamming on the brakes, a good bracket does not have to sandbag. If your car runs consistent, you cut a good light they will be no need to brake it.

Time brings changes, I didn't like bracket racing when they first started it, but got used to it. Same way for 1/8th mile strips, now I race both and have fun doing it.

I have been drag racing 49 years, consider myself a descent racer having won my share/set two National records/held the Kansas state class record, etc, but am still learning. I would like to return to the NHRA stock class racing as we did in the 60's, but that is a thing of the past. Time changes everything.

[Goatman]

Anyone who has been racing heads up since cars were invented would know that all of the things you listed for "bracket racing" is also required for heads up racing.

The problem is, running a 14 second car on the street has nothing to do with heads up racing, contrary to what again has become popular opinion on the Pontiac BB's.

Go to a NMCA style race and walk through the pits. You won't find anyone sitting down watching TV.

Go to an NMCA style race and stand at the starting line. You'll find its twice as hard to keep those cars straight as any bracket car. 1600 HP going to the ground on a 10.5" tire is an amazing thing to watch. Twice as hard as anything in bracket racing.

The problem here, once again, is perception. Bracket guys want nothing to do with heads up racing, unless its on the street, which has nothing to do with heads up racing, but they all think it does.

[rumair]

congrats brian. i also had my first (i'm pretty sure it was anyway) .500 light in eliminations a few weeks ago. i've had several perfect lights in time trial runs but i don't ever remember having one in an elimination round. my opponent (actually a friend of mine) had a .562 light against me; needless to say i was on the brakes HARD.

[Floyd Hand]

Goatman, I'm yanking your chain on the driving skills in heads-up. Every one knows or should know it takes skill to keep a car between the lanes if car has any amount of HP.

[Bruce Meyer]

Floyd- I beg to differ on your opinion on using the brakes in bracket racing. Many times ive beaten guys that treed me by leaving some in the bank and using the brakes to nip him at the line. Thats what I love about bracket racing. Its not just mash it and hope for the best. There is stategy and skill involved in bracket racing. Something Goatman has absolutely no clue about.

[OldmanGoat]

First of all....CONGRATS Brian. Few people get that perfect light, glad for you. Keep it up dude!

Next: I am not a long time member of this board, unlike a lot of you. And up until this spring, have been away from racing for 20+ years. I have been reading the arguments over brackets vs. heads-up racing the past several weeks, and am still scratching my head. Sorry, but I just don't see that many differences. No matter how you race it's still a matter of getting to the finish line first without a redlight or "break-out". The only differences I can see is how you want to set up your car. Either way, you can go anywhere from 15 seconds down to 6 seconds to the end. I'm not saying that Floyd & Bruce aren't presenting valid points, they are both right in their views, to my eye.(and I hope they are just razzing each other a bit) Yeah, heads-up usually relies more on mechanical or electrical devices to keep the car consistant off the line, but big wooppee. Usually so does the guy/gal next to you, so there isn't any big advantage. It STILL comes down to the driver doing his/her job.
For myself, I like racing and watching either style of racing. And I am setting up my car to race either way. But pure foot-brake only, no electronics or 2-step (just my preferences). In fact, in our area we dont have a real choice, with the only 2 tracks within 400 miles of here running brackets all but 1 race each. Sorry for the chapter & verse, but just the humble opinion of a guy who likes racing Pontiac!

[Floyd Hand]

Bruce M, I agree with you 100 % on both your remarks. I have used the brakes just for safety if I have a car link or so on the guy.

Brian, a 500 light is hard to do. What is bad in the final round of a MCCC race I cut a -4.998 red against the other guys 6.20. He took home class win.

[Rob B]

I've had them days. worse one, Ripped off a .499 against a .710, run dead on with a .002 while the other guy ran over a tenth off. That put him in the finals (SOB drew the by in semi's) and won. He never had a light better than a .620 all night. when it's your day, it's your day.
Congrats Brian on the light! Now go pull a .500 red!!!

[ventura7211]

Gongrads on the perfect light, brian. I will disagree as this being the "Holy Grail" I think that would be a perfect run. I've seen it happen twice, once in super pro (electronics) and once in pro no/e.
"First of all I'm not knocking heads-up racing as I was racing heads-up long before most of you were born (started in 1955)."

Floyd I found the pic below at mo-kans site. It was from an old mag called TACH I believe around '66. I don't know how it is around where you live but here, heads up dominates with the attendence, racers spend more, and recieve less than in payouts than the brackets even tho, most times there is a larger car count at the street legal drags than the normal bracket day.

[ERIC17621]

What is the difference between heads up and bracket? Yes, I know the technical differences, but either race is handicapped right? Even in heads up, cars are given handicaps based on what class they run in. Some cars are allowed to be lighter then others, run different heads, different carbs. All this is designed to keep the cars about even. Bruce, you even claim that the car pictured in your avatar is the "fastest car for it's weight and class," but when someone compares it to a pro-stock, or import drag car running the same or faster, you say it's not the same because they don't have the same handicaps as the mustang (weight and turbo size). If and when that car becomes yours, you have already said you need to add 200 lbs, and change to a smaller turbo to race Heads up? So you need to slow the car down, to race all out? And you think bracket racing is messed up? I say they are the same.

You argue that the rules of bracket racing are gay, but then equivocate why the rules of the Mustangs class make it the greatest car there. So even thought you race "heads up," you are still play on a leveled playing field, which is handicapped so that you all finish close to the same time. The only difference is that heads up assumes your budget is unlimited, and everyone can afford to build an 8 second or better car. This is of course not the case as you were only able to produce 10-second times (which I respect BTW) with your car and budget.

In bracket racing however, money is not as much of a factor as 2500 lbs turbo cars can race 4000 lbs (mostly) stock cars. Then they are handicapped by the times they are running, rather then the weight, or engine equipment they can utilize in their cars. Therefore, other skills have to be employed to be successful. If you want pure heads up racing, then why don’t you race a top fuel car and see how you do? The only competition should be who gets there fastest right? In fact, your “heads up” is nothing more then bracket racing where everyone has large budget, the same dial in, and breaking out is a good thing. If that is what you like, that is fine, but be honest about what it is.

[Floyd Hand]

Ventura, If you read the list of record setters that day, you will see both me and my younger brothers name. They spelled him name wrong, should of been Ted Hand.

Yes and I have that book and many others. I raced at MoKan from opening day, around 1963 or so until I moved to0 Tx. in 69.

[Stuart]

Neat pictures from the Mo-Kan site!

Is it just me, or does that Falcon Ranchero have an altered wheelbase?

It sure looks like the rear wheelwells have been relocated towards the front, and I think the front wheels are pushed forward a bit as well.

Also, it's being driven by Jim Butler...you don't suppose there's some sort of early JBP Pontiac engine in that thing?

[Floyd Hand]

Stuart, The Jim Butler that is in the picture is from Texas, not the same Jim as we know. That was a fad back then to move the body back on frame, It started the funny car crase.

[Stuart]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Floyd Hand:
Stuart, The Jim Butler that is in the picture is from Texas, not the same Jim as we know. That was a fad back then to move the body back on frame, It started the funny car crase. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought maybe we uncovered some dark Ford secret of Jim's past...
The thing that surprised me about the altered wheelbase is I've never seen a Ranchero so modified. I suppose if any car needed better traction it would be one of them.