[Skip Fix]

My measurements-on the plenum the are rough just using the dimensions not real ccs. I used the common wall for the runner length. The Tomahawk is based on a Holley but they are blended in so the dimensions may be different from the Holley.

Victor(stock) plenum port entrance 3"x1.125.A 6, 6.25,6.75, and a 6.625 runer length. Plenum 67.47 cubic inches

Holley 2.625x1.02 port entrance. Runners 6",5.25,5.5, 6.25.Plenum 51.18 ci.

Torker II 3.00x1.05 port entrance.Runners two at 6.5, and two at 5.873.plenum 73.63ci

Torker 1 rear runners 5.375,5.0, front runners 6,6.375.Port entrance on front runners after some massaging 3.125x.830. Rear 2.375x1.35.Hard to get a true plenum voulme measuring with the "Volu Step" but around 52.02ci

[455-4+1]

Cheers for the measurements skip

So with the runner numbers averaged we get the following

Victor(stock) 6.41"
Holley 5.75"
Torker II 6.19"
Torker 1 5.69"
Torker 1 (2 rear 1/2's) 5.19"

I know there are alot of other factors but would the difference in runner length between the Victor and a 2xBack 1/2 torker help raise the torque peak any if the runners on the torker could be raised by adding material to the top of the runner ???

The differance in area at the plenum opening isnt that much although the victor is taller in stock trim

Area for Victor at plenum is 3x1.125" = 3.375 sq/in

Area for back 1/2 Torker is 2.375x1.35" = 3.21 sq/in)

If need be there looks like enough room to raise the torker runners in stock form if needed

?????

[Tom Vaught]

Quote:

"Thanks Lynn and one and all this gives a lot to digest.Someone does have a different way of connecting piston to crank.It is being used by the armed services in those spy planes to stay aloft for extended periods of time as fuel mileage is better.This was developed by a mechanic playing with a childs toy.The 'rod' length can be adjusted.Tom Vaught Did you find anything out about that device?

I will say this Bob, I worked for 4 years on an engine that had a rod that could change its length. LOL!

I will not comment on the spy planes that can stay aloft for hours at a time.

Tom V.

[NHRASuperStock455SD]

I already have one of those. Don Kennedy built it for the 455SD motor in 1989, but it didnt work. Why? The cross sectional area sucks!

We bought it and used it on the 400 6X motor and it works good, but the Victor is faster, but not by much.

The cross sectional area for the Victor ported is larger than the outside castings of this intake! It is a must for a big Pontiac. What Tom says about taper saves this intake from being worthless.

Skip, nice work, but by the time we add or flow dividers under the intake and count the widow's peak in the front and the back, we are out to about 11 inches. Cant get around it without suffering fuel distribution problems.

I hope the Tomahawk is the answer. Picture below of the back halved intake. It was in Don Kennedy's magazine article in the late 80's if any of you saw it.

Oh, and I only can think of one Rod I know that changes length, but that belongs on a much different website . We all know that Pontiac guys have the longest rods, and the biggest strokes, dont we?

[Half-Inch Stud]

That photo say it better than me potential text.

Endurance planes use kero, Rotary engines, and more wing area. Buy 4 and stick one at each tire, 400HP at the wheels. Air-cooled up to 100HP, then liquid cooling.http://www.uavenginesltd.co.uk/filea...pack/AR741.pdf

I want to know details about the Vari-Rod. HIS

[Skip Fix]

My lengths were based on the common wall. You can get all kinds of lengths using the floor vs the roof on the same port. I don't know what to use as a standard.Trying to measure halfway up is hard to do consistantly.I would think plenum sizes play a little into the mix also.

[johnta1]

Lynn, you're correct, it was the article on Don Kennedy I was referring to.
I thought it was in the Strauss article.

Are you including the plenum in the runner length?
I.E., from head entrance to carb plate?

[Region Warrior]

How about a view from the top

[455-4+1]

Half-inch stud

I am with you now

I did a similar thing converting my Steet Dominator to a square bore flange

The pairs of 2 inch circles I plotted on the cobbled together photo were in response to the "split dominator" and "carb with 3" between pairs of throttle blades" ideas which would give a longer plenum and shorter runners

I agree alot of work and if the Tomohawk delivers this and the Cross sectional area Lynn talks about it can only be good

[Half-Inch Stud]

I gots to get me a baseline FIRST, before getting all up with intake swaps. Tomahawk is interesting to me, Albeit I need tall-ports (taller, lower, wider). So, me Torker-I, and Offyl ports already tall like that. I historically balked at splitting my 2 Torker-Is to make the Double-back, or Double-front.

This just a thread for thinking, not doing.

[Tom Vaught]

I have a split Torquer 1 (2 rears like Kennedy's deal) Custom Top as the intake
plenum, as mentioned gets longer.

Going to try it on a "blow thru" deal as the intake made excellent flow on a flow bench and never tapered off. The one I have was naturally a custom deal.

A friend took the front runners and made a great 326 2-bbl Holley intake for street
driving.

Tom V.

[Skip Fix]

OK pondering new intakes something I was thinking about for a few years, but can't heliarc and no Bridgeport in the garage. Edelbrock #2958 Busch Grand National SBC 18 degree head spider "top". Weld on some thicker flanges to blend into our Pontiac spacing(like some of the RAV/Ford intakes).

Their head flow is pretty close to ours. A SBC is pretty close port spacing. Width is thinner so some thick spacers to match to a Pontiac. The Buick boys did that with a Mopar intake and spacers before TA Products stepped up for them.

[Larry Navarro]

Tom V. Quote: A runner with a taper (larger at the plenum vs the manifold gasket location) will act like a shorter runner because the pulse wave energy will be dissipating as it travel up the runner.

Getting the right ration of runner length vs the
correct taper angles is an exercise in tuning.

Lynn Quote:Tom, you are right on the money with your "taper" comment.

My take on this.....this "favorable" example or design of an intake has been right under your noses and there has been NO mention of it here yet. In fact it was in production WAY before the VICTOR entered the market!!!
Look familiar?

[Skip Fix]

Larry there are some 4150 Holley baseplates that allow smaller 850 type carbs to bolt on 4500 Dominator intakes.Braswell has one. I think I've seen another out there.

[Larry Navarro]

Thats the old warrior from Jim Yanoski. I have since sold that intake but still have a regular 4150 flange warrior sitting on the shelf.

[Tom Vaught]

Well, Larry, you can thank a couple of FORD GUYS for that deal.

The intake was made for a former Ford "Skilled Trades" guy named Doug. He was a Plumber
for Ford and a racer on the side. He later did contract/ prototype work for PMD.

The runners were designed by a retired Ford Engineer and carved on a piece of hardwood.
The hardwood pattern was later used as the "male" for the first sand cast intakes.

Just a little trivia.

The FAMOUS transmission was designed by three Ford engineers for Buddy Ingersol's Pinto
race car. Doug later bought the guys out. He later sold the business for 7.5 million dollars to the employees of the company.

He had a trans built especially for me quite a few years ago.

Tom V.

[455-4+1]

Not this one was it Tom ??

[NHRASuperStock455SD]

Who would think I would ever say anything bad about our old Stand by the Nash! However, the plenum is terrible and the cross sectional area is no good.

I checked out the numbers on the Tomahawk, and Dave tells me numbers that make me believe that a 2.6 tall and 1.3 wide port at the head is possible. The real tale-tell is the amount of plenum, and the plenum design.

Pontiac need lots of plenum for fuel distribution.

John,

We start the intake runner length at the point at which the divider and the other wall kind of starts.

However, with the "tabs" under the carb, it is a little hard to come up with an exact number. You must also count the widow's peak in the front and the back.

I will try to do pictures of some of the modifications we tried to the Victor that slowed the car down.

Tom,

We have spent serious dyno and porting time on this intake since Don had it builts 15 or so years ago. WE have maximized cross sectional area, polished strategic locations, installed flow separaters, added a turtle. It is a much better version than what was in the magazine.

I also will show you guys a Sheet Metal from Hogan which as a $2500 miserable failure. We use it as the perfect example of how not to build an intake for a Pontiac.

Lynn

[bmpmdf]

Tom, was that Buddies turbo Pinto? Or the set up with the V8 PRO-STOCK ENGINE? I do remember him dusting the field at Gateway with that car! No one hated it worst than Da' Grump ! Lynn, I've seen half a dozen hp losers out of those sheetmetal intakes ! And people don't realize that just because it is sheetmetal, it doesn't make it better. A case of looks over function!! Skip, make the spacer out of hardwood, sanded with a 600 paper, lacquered smooth. There is a funky little angle that is needed to line it up, but you can also do a little grinding on the intake to bring it in line.

[Larry Navarro]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Who would think I would ever say anything bad about our old Stand by the Nash! However, the plenum is terrible and the cross sectional area is no good. We have spent serious dyno and porting time on this intake(The Torker 1) since Don had it builts 15 or so years ago. WE have maximized cross sectional area, polished strategic locations, installed flow separaters, added a turtle. It is a much better version than what was in the magazine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In regards to the Nash, why weren't the racers capitalizing on the favorable "venturi" shaped runners? Half the design was already there!
All the work of cutting and welding halves of T1 intakes, adding spacers, all the "test n tune" time expended, etc.
Need more cross-sectional area and plenum, then use the amount of effort applied to modify the Edelbrock intakes, ON the Warrior.
The Jim Yanoski Warrior intake in the above post, had all of these attributes along with the favorable "as-cast" runner shape.
Never had a chance to use that intake but looking at it closely in comparison to my other 4500 Victor intake(not to be confused with the 4150), the plenum volumes were very much the same.