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zedo · 12-19-2001, 11:33 AM

I have an old big-chamber, mid-70's cylinder head, D-port, for a Pontiac. (casting 4X) It's experimental, all cut up, had a few ports ported here, then flowed. Results were not spectacular, typically 230-240 cfm. Even sent it to extrude hone, had them hone it, and reflowed it. (picked the exhaust up BTW). Also one exhaust port cut off.

I'd like to do some R&D with the members/head porters here. I'll send this head to anyone, with 2 valves (2.11"/1.77"). Port it to the maximum available flow, and ship it back, at my cost. I'll then reflow it on a JKM bench, my coin. Then post the results for everyone.

Let's see what a max ported D-port like this will really flow. I know the short turn isn't the best on these, the 72 cc are better. But the good ones I had were sold, and junk ones scrapped years ago. ANY TAKERS ?? These heads are plentiful, let's see what they can be pulled up to.

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[This message has been edited by zedo (edited 12-23-2001).]

zedo · 12-19-2001, 11:33 AM

I have an old big-chamber, mid-70's cylinder head, D-port, for a Pontiac. (casting 4X) It's experimental, all cut up, had a few ports ported here, then flowed. Results were not spectacular, typically 230-240 cfm. Even sent it to extrude hone, had them hone it, and reflowed it. (picked the exhaust up BTW). Also one exhaust port cut off.

I'd like to do some R&D with the members/head porters here. I'll send this head to anyone, with 2 valves (2.11"/1.77"). Port it to the maximum available flow, and ship it back, at my cost. I'll then reflow it on a JKM bench, my coin. Then post the results for everyone.

Let's see what a max ported D-port like this will really flow. I know the short turn isn't the best on these, the 72 cc are better. But the good ones I had were sold, and junk ones scrapped years ago. ANY TAKERS ?? These heads are plentiful, let's see what they can be pulled up to.

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http://www.pontiacpower1.com/phpBB/index.php

[This message has been edited by zedo (edited 12-23-2001).]

Ron · 12-19-2001, 12:49 PM

No one on the PeeWee1 board again Zedo? Take the trash to the trash dump, PeeWee1 !!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Ron
www.performanceyears.com

[This message has been edited by Ron (edited 12-19-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Ron (edited 12-19-2001).]

455T/A · 12-19-2001, 05:22 PM

Hey Charlie,

LOL

[This message has been edited by 455T/A (edited 12-20-2001).]

larry davis · 12-19-2001, 11:26 PM

Zedo, why is everyone always busting your chops?

Torment · 12-20-2001, 12:56 AM

sounds like a nose full of rust [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] any numbers of the chopped exhaust port?

zedo · 12-20-2001, 07:09 AM

Hey Bob, LOL.

What I'd like to see, is proof of these mythical/mystical 270-280-290 cfm D-ports, on a 28" bench. It may be easier to find the holy grail, a unicorn, and a mermaid. I'm suspecting smoke and mirrors, as there are no takers, hmmmmm. Well I expected that too. Not even on my coin. I don't believe they pull 260 cfm in reality. More like 240.

If the heads pull the numbers, great, I'll post all the numbers, and give credit where it's due. So I'm, (or I,m) still waiting.

Ron, eat a salad.

Torment, the cut off exhaust only picked up around 5-8 cfm, but it wasn't cut way back- just off even with the edge of the head. I want to try another, cutting it back to the wall, where the spark plug hole is.
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http://www.pontiacpower1.com/phpBB/index.php

[This message has been edited by zedo (edited 12-20-2001).]

Rashionality · 12-20-2001, 08:51 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by zedo:
It may be easier to find the holy grail, a unicorn, and a mermaid.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or a satisfied BF customer.
__________________________________________
Charlie, Charlie, Charlie don't you understand that people don't trust you?

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My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.

Larry Navarro · 12-20-2001, 09:54 AM

maybe the comparison should be a little more closely matched.....say a pre-smog d-port head against the E-head. at least the advantage between the two would be "slightly" more in favor of the E-head.
what's really funny is that these "low-flowing" D-port heads are performing BETTER at the track, than the "out-of-the-box" high-flowing aluminum counterparts. what other PROOF does anyone need.
nobody races a flowbench!!!
put that in ELVIS' pipe and smoke-it.

okay, so i took the bait. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

[This message has been edited by Larry Navarro (edited 12-20-2001).]

zedo · 12-20-2001, 11:08 AM

Larry, Picket's were running 8.0's, no NOS, with Wenzler heads end of this season. Where's the D-ports that do that ?? I hear you beating the D-port drum about low-mid 10 second et's. That's all well and good, but again, that level of performance would not even qualify for the MG Quick 16. The slowest car there runs in the mid-9's. BTW, a guy by the name of Scavo was doing that here 15 years ago, 10.10's with casting 670 heads, hit 9.90's at MG. You have discovered something, but it's actually old news here.

Rash, gee, Jim Y. seems to trust me, with the keys to his garage and access to all his tools. So does the guy that sunk $12K into his '69 GTO that we're doing a resto on. Where's these guys that don't trust me ?? Oh, yeh, these mythical net/web personalities, that get their motors built in Ohio- well, that's another story. I seem to be living pretty good regardless, though. LOL.

In all fairness, this isn't an E-head or W-head vs. D-port matter. I just want to find these mysterious high flowing, killer D-ports, and put them on a bench and flow them for myself. What's the problem with that ?? BF-RRE got nothing to do with it. It's my idea.

"The search for the grail continues..."

[This message has been edited by zedo (edited 12-20-2001).]

Larry Navarro · 12-20-2001, 11:37 AM

zedo...i believe that your turning this subject around!!!
this wasn't about 8 or 9 second runs on 260-270cfm, or the "quick 16"
surely your smart enough to know that even your "out-of-box" e-heads aren't going to run 8's, 9's or 10's!!!!
if that 15yr old information you talk about is old news, then you have proven my argument!
thanks man!!!

[This message has been edited by Larry Navarro (edited 12-20-2001).]

'ol Pinion head · 12-20-2001, 01:55 PM

Where are these stock 290 cfm E-heads?

On what type of flowbench was this number pulled? What lift .600, .700, wide open?

The stocker 87cc E heads, I have, flow 262 cfm on the intake at .500 lift. Charlie, why not stick with .500 lift comparisons on 28" bench if throwing around #'s.

Rigging a simple comparison by using max ported 71-74 D-port heads, is def a way to skew the results against stock E-heads. I like Will's 061's as an example of decent flowing ported D-ports. Will, I bought some more [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Rashionality · 12-20-2001, 02:40 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by zedo:
Rash, gee, Jim Y. seems to trust me, with the keys to his garage and access to all his tools.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Chucky stick to the topic at hand will'ya? Who really fu#king cares who Jim trusts with the keys to his garage anyway? Surely not me.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by zedo:
So does the guy that sunk $12K into his '69 GTO that we're doing a resto on.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Chucky, once again, stick to the topic at hand. I am not talking about the 2 people that trust you, who more than likely have known you for years, live near you, have dealings with you and use your internet provider...yeah, hazelton.net, that's you. The fact is Chucky that you have no more credibility here, you used to, but not anymore. Why don't we hear Jim defending you? Why is that anyway? Care to answer?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by zedo:
Where's these guys that don't trust me ??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just ask.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by zedo:
Oh, yeh, these mythical net/web personalities, that get their motors built in Ohio- well, that's another story.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First of all...the mythical web personalities you are talking about are the Hands, OMT, OPH and quite a few others...care to expose them to be "mythical"? And who really cares that I can afford to have pro's build my motor? Once again Chucky your cries fall on deaf ears. I know one thing, I have not seen any of your motors tearing up the street or the track lately. DB

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by zedo:
I seem to be living pretty good regardless, though. LOL.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, so is O.J. Simpson...see my point DB?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by zedo:
BF-RRE got nothing to do with it. It's my idea.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Never said they did, I just put a good analogy to your little brainfart Chucky.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by zedo:
"The search for the grail continues..."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have a real nice pair of D-Ports for you to flow but you have to pick them up at my house...need directions Chucky? I'll even lay out the red carpet for you when you arrive...it's tan now.

Give it a rest, you're looking in the wrong place for the answers you so badly wish to find.

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My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.

[This message has been edited by Rashionality (edited 12-20-2001).]

Jim Yanoski · 12-20-2001, 03:08 PM

Cmon guys fight nice! Charlie, I walked into the shop this morning and tripped over a unicorn!!!! BTW. That thing with Howard was 15 years ago, water under the bridge, he is a very competent machinist and engine builder, and does have some good experience with Pontiac engines. Those magical D-ports down in the valley get a little help breathing, ala blower, huffer,
supercharger, isn't that the truth TA? Charlie, I am missing my big adjustable wrench, and $10,000 in cash!!! While I'm away this weekend, I guess I will have to leave the surveillance cameras on!! LOL!!! Just kidding!!!

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D-ports ROCK !!

[This message has been edited by Jim Yanoski (edited 12-20-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Jim Yanoski (edited 12-20-2001).]

Robert Imhof · 12-20-2001, 04:21 PM

The D-Port battle continues.....

-Robert Imhof

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"It's all fun and games until somebody gets their doors blown off!" Sleepers Rule!
-Pontiac Lemans, The ultimate sleeper.

455T/A · 12-20-2001, 06:20 PM

º¿º

[This message has been edited by 455T/A (edited 12-21-2001).]

Larry Navarro · 12-20-2001, 06:22 PM

ouch....and not just a D-port battle either.

zedo · 12-20-2001, 07:03 PM

Bob, where did you see me say, I'm an expert head porter ?? If I was, I wouldn't be starting this thread now, would I. Just want to see proof

[This message has been edited by zedo (edited 12-22-2001).]

zedo · 12-20-2001, 07:06 PM

OPH, back in 1997 I bought a pair of 87 cc E-heads for a guy, bare from Summit for $1100. I put a 2.19" intake valve in them, no porting, they flowed 290 cfm. They're still on the guy's car.

Paul, where do you live. I'll take those directions, too. I'm waiting.

[This message has been edited by zedo (edited 12-20-2001).]

Brian Baker · 12-20-2001, 08:13 PM

But doesn't the E-head come with 2.11 valves "out of the box"? Seems to me that number was not achieved with an "out of the box" head as previously claimed. Edelbrock themselves only claim 270-cfm "out of the box" (plus or minus a few cfm). Additionally, what size bore was that 290 achieved at? 4.500" (as Edelbrock uses)?

This is unrelated to the original topic, but that is one of the major problems I have with advertised head flow numbers. It seems the industry has settled on a 4.500" bore as a standard for comparison, yet no engine that I know of (with the exception of some very few "Godzilla" blocks destined for Pro-Mod or IHRA Super-Stock) has a bore this large. Valve shrouding obviously plays a part in flow, as I'm certain these same E-heads that flow 270 "out of the box" would flow considerably less on a 4.181" bore.

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