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455Dave · 01-30-2002, 09:39 PM

I've got most of the front end taken of the T/A to replace the heater core so I'm ready to take the plunge and start sanding the car down to paint it. I'm changing colors so I want to remove the trunk lid, doors, fenders, hood and bumpers to cover as much as possible when it gets sprayed.

I'm looking for input on if it is easier to sand the car by putting the car back together or using sawhorses to support all of the parts and sand them individually.

The other item is how do you prep the innner sections of the doors and fenders? This looks to be impossible to do by hand and get the paint to adhere. I'm sure many of you have been through this so any input is welcome.

Dave

455Dave · 01-30-2002, 09:39 PM

I've got most of the front end taken of the T/A to replace the heater core so I'm ready to take the plunge and start sanding the car down to paint it. I'm changing colors so I want to remove the trunk lid, doors, fenders, hood and bumpers to cover as much as possible when it gets sprayed.

I'm looking for input on if it is easier to sand the car by putting the car back together or using sawhorses to support all of the parts and sand them individually.

The other item is how do you prep the innner sections of the doors and fenders? This looks to be impossible to do by hand and get the paint to adhere. I'm sure many of you have been through this so any input is welcome.

Dave

JC455 · 01-30-2002, 10:06 PM

Dave,
The best way to prep the inner parts is to use a Scotch Brite pad to scuff the areas- this assumes you don't have rust/pits/major uneven areas, etc.
The pads are sold at autobody supply houses, but you can get the same results with a stiff, fresh Scotch Brite pad.
Make sure you wash everything down first, TSP (tri-sodium phosphate) works very well for this, as the last thing you want is contamination from silicones, wax, etc.
If you have the time and/or patients, your best bet is to assemble all the parts; do the body work; sand some more; sand some more; remove the front clip; paint behind fenders, all jam areas (trunk, door jams, hood area, etc), spoilers, mirrors, etc; reassemble car; mask off jams (back tape to prevent lines- read an auto painting book for masking tips); paint entire car as one unit- this prevents uneven color application/shading.
Paint your wheel spoilers last- use a flex agent w/ your primer and paint, otherwise you're pretty much guaranteed it'll chip/flake/crack (ask me how I know). HPP had an excellent how to article on this very subject a few issues back.
Finally, reassemble it, color sand, rub it out, and start collecting the OOOHHs and AAHHHs or trophies.

JC455 · 01-30-2002, 10:10 PM

Oh yeah, paint the bumpers w/ the wheel spoilers, so they have flexability also.

455Dave · 01-31-2002, 12:07 AM

Sounds like a major PITA but it falls along the lines I was thinking of. I want the car to look as good as it can, but it won't be a trailer queen. It's a daily driver and a frequent visitor to the track.

I'll do like you outlined since I'm in no rush to get it done but I need to work on the logistics a bit. I was planning to do all the work in the garage at the house and then transport it to where it will be painted, but I might rent a place when I get close to painting to have a clean an area as possible and minimize the handling of the fenders and stuff.

I do have some experienced help for the body work and hopefully I'll pick up that excellent set of doors that a friend has been promising me. If I could just find a driver's side fender close by, I'd be ready to finish the car.

Thanks,

Dave

Marty Phipps · 01-31-2002, 11:56 AM

The scotch brite pad for the jambs is right on the money.
Only use T.S.P. in the engine compartment for areas you have the battery.
Go to your local auto body and paint supplier.
Tell them you want to buy a qt. of "Ting"
This is a very strong soap designed specifically for paint prep.
bassically what you do, is wet the scotchbrite pad, rub in on the ting, then start scrubbing the jambs.
Make sure you use lots of water on rinsing, plus you'll parobaly want to wear some gloves.

Because of the new generation Urethane paints.
BE VERY CAREFUL about using flex additive.
If it's a hard plastic like fiberglass, don't use any.
Flex additive "retards" the curing time of paints.

NEVER, and I mean NEVER use flex additive in your primer!
You'll find the best way to prep the flexible parts would be to.
Sand them as you normally would,try to staw away from sand paper courser then 220 grit, use a light coat of primer to fill any scratches only.lightly sand after drying.(finer paper yet)
then spray the plastic parts with a specific plastic primer.
some of these(depending upon the manufacturer) are nothing more then a very thin adhesion promoter.
Adding flex additive to your primer can do all kinds of weird things.
Make it not cure properly,separate the resins,cause the plastic to swell, etc. etc.
This warning doesn't affect all additivies, and primers.
But I would hate to see a person go to all the trouble you're planning. then have your plastic parts react.
If you don't break through the origional paint, then a small amount of additive in the clear would be a good idea.

Marty Phipps · 01-31-2002, 05:02 PM

Something I forgot to mention, that might help a little more.
If at all possible, stay away from the old Lacquer based primers.
You'll spend considerable more for the Urethane based primer/ filler.
the cost is around $200.00 for a gallon, plus activator and reducer.
But the higher cost is nothing when the benefits are considered.
The old acrylic lacquers, rely on air for it to dry,because of this weather can adversely affect the primer.
Lacquer primer is also very absorbent when it's dry.which means it needs to be top coated as soon as it dries.
This is not good if you live in an area that has a lot of rain or high humidity content.
Think of it as a sponge laying against your bare metal.
It's also highly subsceptible to extreme weather conditions, too soft, will solvent pop, crack, peel, chip, etc. if too much is applied.
Plus acrylic lacquers contain a high amount of lead, not too safe for you.
The new production brands of urethanes are different all together.
They rely solely on a chemical reaction to cure.
Are impervious to weather without being top coated immediatly.
They're chemically cured, so the absorbency issue is gone.
Act as a barrier for your top coat finish.
This results in a better finish.
When a 2 part urethane is used.
You really need to make sure you have a N.I.O.S.H. approver respirator, a disposible is about $28.00 and will just about last for 1 car project.
The reason you need the respirator is because of the iso-cyanides the urethane produces when it's mixed together.

Marty Phipps · 01-31-2002, 05:10 PM

1 last thing while I think about it.
LESS IS BEST!!!!!!
The old idea of applying 10 -15 coats of material is long gone.
Most paint manufacturers only recommend using enough color to cover.
The idea is to keep total paint build up to a minimum.
This will result in a more durable finish.
Clear should be around 3 mils. total thickness.
On the new super high solids clears that's about 2 full coats.
on the regular high solids clear that's about 3 coats.
I've been in auto body and paint repair since I was a kid back in 1969.
So if any of you have any questions about this area, feel free to e-mail me.

Skip Fix · 01-31-2002, 07:33 PM

Marty, Using flex in the primer on the nose and tail, I thought was necesaary or the primer cracks? I know when I di my 78 12 years ago with Glasurit we put it in their epoxy and filler primer besides the color and clear.

455Dave · 01-31-2002, 08:30 PM

Marty and JC455:

Thanks for all of the information. After 8 years, I feel like the car will get painted soon.

I've already have a gallon of urethane primer and it helps when you have friends who can get paint at cost. I'll get some filler and cleaning solution.

I have two excellent MSA respirators, from working in some nasty environments. I need to order some new cartridges though.

Dave

PS: I print out some of the topics so I can take them with me when i travel. I'll add this one to the book between the nitrous and quadrajet sections. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Marty Phipps · 02-01-2002, 11:21 AM

In the last 5 years
There has been a dramatic change in the chemical make up of paints.
It's true that either paint or primer can crack if too much material is used.
Back in the late 80's and early 90's primer was used quite commonly as a final coat filler.
Consequently it was applied in very thick coats.
This can still be used that way to some expent on metal panels.
Some polyester primers can build up to as much as 10 mils.(that's awfully thick)
But with the new generation of finishing fillers, that's only recommended for show quality "trailer queens".
When paints and primers crack on flexible panels.
It's generally caused by one of two things.
(1) too much material
(2) impact damage.
Some paint companies (i/e Spies Hecker) only recommend a small amount of flex additive in the clear.
Other companies (Sikkens) requires additive in the base also.
You should really check with the paint manufacturer you're going to use.

JC455 · 02-01-2002, 07:38 PM

"Back in the late 80's and early 90's primer was used quite commonly as a final coat filler.
Consequently it was applied in very thick coats."

Yep, that's the last time I used a flex agent (my first 76 T/A). Most of the cars I've messed with since have been 69 and below-- no flex panels.
I need to get re-aquainted w/ the new urethanes, as I'll be painting my current 76 T/A pretty soon.
Just think Dave, you won't be alone in your frustrations!!
Oh yeah- re: body alignment--
Sometimes the nose is slightly lower in the center of the header panel, as compared to the hood.
Good Luck-->

[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

455Dave · 02-02-2002, 12:45 AM

JC455:

That's not what I wanted to hear, darn hood. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

A 76? Cool, there's not a lot of 76 owners around these days it seems. I've almost sold the car three times, but I'm glad I still have it.

Dave

JC455 · 02-02-2002, 05:48 PM

Hood? Who me?

It's okay-- I been away for a little while, but painting is like riding a bike- you never forget. All the stuff I learned way back when- that was taught to me by a lead wielding instructor- was totally up to date when plastics were the rage and lead was a thing of the past. He still insisted I learn it, after all bodywork is more of an art than a science.
It's the same thing with modern paints- I might have to learn a new system, but I still say you need flex additives for flexible panels, if you didn't, why would they sell it?
Here's an OLD pic of my first T/A-- I built it as a teenager- paint, motor, tranny, everything- the front end was still too high, but I corrected that after I installed some HO Racing parts and pieces.

[ February 02, 2002: Message edited by: JC455 ]</p>

JC455 · 02-02-2002, 06:03 PM

Oh yeah, if you look very carefully you'll notice that the hood is slightly above the header panel. This is totally normal.
I think Rocky R. has a 76 that's in wonderful condition. If he reads this, maybe he'll post a pic.
You might also look in the 74-76 section and see if his car is in any of the posts.

larry davis · 02-02-2002, 06:22 PM

My 78 & 79 T/A hoods are the same.

455Dave · 02-02-2002, 11:12 PM

JC455:

I meant the hood on the car, it's driving me nuts. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Larry says he had two do the same thing. They couldn't have come this way from the factory, or could they?

I've looked for ways to adjust it but its at the right height at the fenders. I wonder if the latch mechanism could be worn.

Nice looking T/A and thanks for the picture. It shows where I need to install the exhaust tips.

Dave

larry davis · 02-03-2002, 01:01 AM

Both of my noses "dip" slightly from the center to the corners? I got my 78 in 81 w/ 33,000 miles from it's original owner & it was like this? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Marty Phipps · 02-06-2002, 04:55 PM

I'd recommend checking the radiator support, where it attaches to the frame.you may have too many shims.
If you really think about it, the bumper cover may be attached to the front fender edges.
But the actual bumper(which supports the center of the cover) is attached to the frame.
You may need to raise the actual bumper where it attaches to the frame.
This should help the center of the hood to bumper cover mounting

JC455 · 02-08-2002, 03:43 PM

Not a bad idea, Marty. I tried w/ my first 76, but it was to no avail.
My buddy is the 3rd (2nd really) owner of a 78 T/A-- say gig w/ the slight dip in the front.
I'm sure with enough time and money anything can be made perfect (look at the white 76 I posted- it was a major POS- rust, broken body panels and spoilers, trashed interior, etc. when I got it, but after lots of sweat and money- voila!), but they were mass produced and subject to imperfection. I had major hang-ups about that w/ the white car, but after I got it as close as I could and painted it, I was quite happy with it.

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