FAQ |
Members List |
Social Groups |
Calendar |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#1
|
||||
|
||||
Supercharged Buick V6 starter on a Pontiac?
Just put a set of Doug's RP headers on my '66 GTO. Went to install the stock starter and see that there's maybe 1/4" clearance to the solenoid with one of the tubes. Not good. So I look to see what's what in the world of mini-starters. I find all the usual suspects, which are of course made from various Japanese OEM starters with a billet adapter. I also found the RobbMc unit which looks suspiciously like it started life as a late-model Delco. But it's $270! Then I look in my WAI catalog since there are lots of photos in there... and lo and behold, I find this listing for a 1.7kW gear-reduction unit to fit traditional Pontiac V8's. And it looks OEM. Hmmm. I did a cross-reference on the p/n and it's for supercharged Buick V6's, like the Grand Prix GTP and Bonneville. There's a cr@pload of those things out there for under $70 brand new, like this: http://www.motorcityreman.com/delcooe9000776.html
Anyone tried one of these on a reasonably high-compression Poncho? Anyone even know if they fit? The motor is the same one used on all the modern GM LS-series V8's. Only potential problem I see is there isn't much more solenoid clearance than a stock Pontiac unit has. Last edited by hgerhardt; 08-18-2010 at 12:16 AM. |
#2
|
||||
|
||||
I doubt there's any reason to think an LS starter might fit our old Pontiacs.
At a glance, the RobbMC starter is deceiving. It's actually a gear-reduction starter, but uses epicyclic (planetary) gearing- thus the motor shaft is coaxial with the output gear shaft. It has quite a clearance advantage over typical geared starters with spur gears and offset motor.
__________________
Anybody else on this planet campaign a M/T hemi Pontiac for eleven seasons? ... or has built a record breaking DOHC hemi four cylinder Pontiac? ... or has driven a couple laps of Nuerburgring with Tri-Power Pontiac power?(back in 1967) |
#3
|
||||
|
||||
I am running a starter I got from a guy locally. It cranks the snot out of my engine which is around 12:1 with a little cam. Cranking compression numbers are in the 215-230 range and it doesn't even notice. Here is a link to the website. He doesn't have one listed for a Pontiac but he will do one for you at a good price. Great guy to deal with and the starter he sells is the one you will see on his personal car thats 700+ cubes and runs 4.60's in the 1/8th on the motor. Give Mark a call.....http://www.houseofpayneperformance.com/home.php
|
#4
|
||||
|
||||
I love my Robmc starter great customer service too
__________________
1969 carousel red firebird 455, richmond 5 speed 1964 540 gto 1971 lemans sport convertible 1972 Maverick under slow construction |
#5
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Quote:
|
#6
|
|||
|
|||
just read this and let not turn it into what starter you are running . he may have found a good brand new replacement for the pontiac motor. if you do buy and install one report back if it works, the fit. ect
|
#7
|
||||
|
||||
Most of the Hitachi style starters having interchangeable mounting blocks. Does this starter have this option? If so it could possibly be made to work.....
|
#8
|
||||
|
||||
Well, you know what they say about being too good to be true...
I bought a starter to fit-check...
This would work IF the flywheel was 1/2" smaller in diameter. Anyone know if Pontiac made flywheels in any other diameters besides the "standard" one? Like maybe a 301? The starter bolt holes are spaced correctly to fit, but the drive gear is about 1/4" too close to the ring gear. Bummer. The thing really fits nicely in there and it's ridiculously light compared to the stocker. |
#9
|
||||
|
||||
...suppose Drill&Tap our block Starter Pad is too custom.
|
#10
|
||||
|
||||
Spacers?...
__________________
If you cant drive from gas pump to gas pump across the map, its not a street car. http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/b...hop/?start=100 |
#11
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
That got me thinking... I drew it out in Catia and found we'd need roughly a .750 spacer. That's actually do-able. I THINK that the window where the ring gear goes into is big enough to accommodate that much mismatch. The torque converter water shield wouldn't fit... but who uses those anyway? Maybe I'll pick up a junkyard starter and do some testing. |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
Don't know your compression etc., but I have used the small body 301 starter with no issues.
It is a bolt in deal. I use a Robbmc on my race motor though.
__________________
"resurfacing Pa highways 2 long black strips at a time" 78 Olds Cutlass Drag car PONTIAC powered with 440 (destroked 455), th400, 12bolt with spool 4.10z Best to date 10.00@130.92 mph at 3250# 79 Grand Prix, will be new home for the 440 Goal 9.75z@135mph at 2900# 83 Malibu Wagon UUV Crate 350, Custom T5, 8.5 with Auburn posi 3.73z Making it the Ultimate Utility Vehicle Go, tow and show (not so much show, yet) |
#13
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I e-mailed him to see if he had anything for the Traditional Pontiac V-8 and he responded....No nothing for Pontiacs. |
#14
|
||||
|
||||
You have a PM. I just called Mark and he said its no problem, just as mine was. He has to change mounting blocks to make it a Pontiac starter. Give him a call and he will fix you up at a very reasonable price.
|
#15
|
||||
|
||||
Filling Starter Holes: install Grade 5 bolts to full depth, cut-off excess, File flat.
Drill new hole, Tap. Take about 2-beers. Easier than Circumference/Diameter. Buick Starter: sounds like a junkyard effort, followed by Garage-time mock-up. About 2 beers. 301 Starter: Go to Auto Store, tell the counter CAD guy you need starter for a 301 what-have-you. Get prices for new, used. Probably the least risky pursuit. No mess. No beer needed. |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
Beer?
Correction!! Have time for lots more beer and price difference could buy lots more beer!
|
#17
|
||||
|
||||
I'm still test fitting starters to use on my '60 block. I'm lining up a standard Pontiac starter drilling the inside bolt hole in the block but there is not enough material out to the end to add the second, outside bolt. So I planned to add a steel angle to the mid plate to drill and tap for the outside bolt. But if the Buick starter works with a .750 spacer, I could drill the inside bolt hole, drill and tap the block for a bolt in the middle of the spacer to secure it to the block and drill and tap the spacer for the outside bolt. I just wished I had buick starter. Which years are you talking about. I'm sure i can pick up something to mock up. Might just work for my starter adaptation. Good topic. Mark L
|
#18
|
||||
|
||||
See the link in my original post. 91-2001 3800 supercharged.
And as for the beer-types... The 301 starter puts the solenoid in the same location as the earlier starters. So, that's out, since that's where the interference is with Doug's round port headers. Besides, I doubt it will crank a 11.5:1 428 very well. Filling/drilling new holes in the block... maybe if the engine were out of the car. But, that won't help me either 'cause moving the Buick starter outboard will also cause interference with the header tube. Best thing to do is the spacer route. But beer is good. mmmmm. Especially a German Pilsner like Warsteiner or Bitburger. Last edited by hgerhardt; 08-24-2010 at 09:30 PM. Reason: forgot about the beer. |
#19
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Do 301 startes also work or are the different then traditional Pontiac 350-455s ?
__________________
Two 1975 455 Grandvilles & '79 455 Trans Am ‘69 Camaro SS 396/375 (owned since ‘88) ‘22 Toyota Sequoia V8 ‘23 Lexus LS500 awd ‘95 Ford F-super duty 4wd 7.3 p-stroke & countless Jeeps & off road vehicles. |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Ignore the starter pad thickness dimensions I've scriblled on my mock up. The 55-60 block measures 1/4" shorter from timing cover face to the bell face. The distance from timing face to flywheel mount surface is same 55-81. BTW the t400 dowel center will be 2.325" from the block pan rail. Last edited by BruceWilkie; 08-24-2010 at 11:36 PM. |
Reply |
|
|