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#1
06-13-2011, 10:48 AM
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Stock rods ok?
Rebuilding a 400 and trying to decide if I should spring for new rods or rebuild the originals.
Planning a stock rebuild and it will be for street/highway use only and not racing. I want a dependable engine that won't give me trouble when I am 1000 miles away from home driving on the interstate. Is magnafluxing, resizing and a set of new rod bolts sufficient for my planned use? Or are new rods just good piece of mind? Are new rods made in the USA or are they offshore? It's a virgin 400 that has never been apart. |
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#2
06-13-2011, 11:04 AM
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I had the same delema. However the cost of getting the rods resized even though I had the bolts was about $150 less than what Ace's forged 5140 rods were. I thought for about 2 minutes and sprung for Ace's rod. Just my $.02. They were Chinese but check out ok. Made by RPM.
Last edited by track73; 06-13-2011 at 11:15 AM. |
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#3
06-13-2011, 11:06 AM
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As inexpensive as they are, I'd go with Ace's rods. Mine checked out okay as well. I actually bought the 4" stroke rotating assembly which came balanced, and I am well pleased with my purchase.
Britt
__________________
1975 Firebird / 1970 4" stroke 400, 6.800" Rods, 87cc Edelbrocks, XR-288-HR roller cam, Harland Sharp 1.5 roller rockers, Edelbrocks Pro-Flo4 port fuel EFI, Super T-10, 3.73 Posi. |
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#4
06-13-2011, 11:07 AM
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The stock rods will do the job. But, today, one has many more choices on parts. In the old days, I would have reconditioned the stock rods. In 2011, I would use these 5140 rods as they are way better than stock and will cost about the same as what the machine shop will charge you do do the stock ones.
http://www.pacificperformanceracing....-bearings.html |
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#5
06-13-2011, 11:44 AM
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I'm gonna go with consensus here, and say go with the forged rods. The price difference nowadays simply isn't worth using the stock cast rods, even on a lower power build IMHO.
__________________
'66 GTO convertible. 462, KRE 290 cfm Dports, SD "Old Faithful" hydraulic roller, CVM ported aluminum Tripower, TKO600, Moser 12 bolt "I open up three deuces, I'm Never Coming Back!" |
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#6
06-13-2011, 12:42 PM
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Here ya go.
10 times stronger rod and when ya add up the balance of the rod, installing bolts, resizing. Not that much difference and piece of mind.  http://store02.prostores.com/servlet...-fit%2C/Detail http://store02.prostores.com/servlet...ods/Categories |
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#7
06-13-2011, 12:45 PM
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Yes on the forged rods from ACE Peace of Mind ! Even though I still ran my cast rod motor yesterday... with rev limiter set at 5600....
__________________
63 Catalina coupe 467 cid budget drag car 11's 1/4 , 7.3 1/8th pump gas n/a 66 Star Chief Executive 57k mile 69 Le Mans 2 dr HT 350 85k mile 15 sec 1/4 69 Firebird 400 Burgandy/Black 70 Olds Rallye 350 F85 4 speed 3.91's 70 Olds Cutlass Cruiser Red Wagon 350 101k miles 15 sec 1/4 12 sec w 455 74 Cheyenne Super C10 LWB Gen 6 454 w ZZ502 cam 3.07gear 13.1 1/4, 8.3 1/8 2020 RAM 1500 SLT 4x4 5.7 A8 Hemi 2007 Hummer H3 3.7 liter turd 2019 Chevy Spark petrol car 38 mpg |
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#9
06-13-2011, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
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#10
06-13-2011, 04:44 PM
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I would not assemble another Pontiac engine with stock rods. However, I also don't build too many low performance engines. If you're doing a low buck rebuild the stock rods will be fine. However, if they need to be resized then I would buy the new forged ones instead.
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#11
06-13-2011, 05:26 PM
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I've asked myself this question:
What would give more piece of mind? Rolling down the highway with 35 year old but properly reconditioned made in the USA rods or new rods made with Chinese steel? Maybe I am just over thinking this a bit but I try to use good old USA made things whenever possible........especially internal engine components. I am certainly not disputing anyone's advice or opinions here. Just tying to make a decision as engine longevity is important in this build. |
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#12
06-13-2011, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Built my 455 that had to go 60 over doing what you stated. It's seen at least 50 passes down the track and a few hundred miles without any issues from the rods.
__________________
74 Formula 469, 6X-4's, 72 Intake, Ramair Manifolds. 3 inch exhaust with x-pipe Custom Roller Cam, 1.52 Roller Rockers Quadrajet done by Cliff 3:42 gears 12.075 @ 112.70 12.092 @ 112.43 12.128 @ 111.71 
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#13
06-13-2011, 07:43 PM
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See post #4 above. Iv`e run stock rods at 500 hp on a 455 with no problems. As stated before, the stock rods will do the job for your mild build. It`s up to you on how much you want to put into old, heavy rods with 3/8 bolts vs. almost the same $ on forged rods with 7/16 bolts. You will NOT toss out one of those 5140 rods. You MIGHT toss a stock rod. Sooo...
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#15
06-13-2011, 08:25 PM
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As noted, there was a time when the choices were significantly limited. As most of us know there are plenty of Pontiac motors have well over 100k on stock rods. That being said, there are superior choices today for minimal cost over reconditioned stock rods. No brainer in my book.
__________________
My money talks to me-it usually says goodbye! |
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#16
06-14-2011, 03:03 AM
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If you need an additional bump to use new forged rods, just get an old rod and a new forged rod together and compare them yourself -- simply a no-contest comparison. Stock cast rods were always the most marginal rotating part in the Pontiac engine, and reconditioning takes additional metal out of them when they are resized. No real guarantee that your rods haven't been resized already during a previous rebuild, and every time just thins out the rod a little more.
__________________
Mick Batson 1967 original owner Tyro Blue/black top 4-speed HO GTO with all the original parts stored safely away -- 1965 2+2 survivor AC auto -- 1965 Catalina Safari Wagon in progress. |
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#17
06-14-2011, 05:03 AM
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what? like you can look at a rod and see if one is better than another? Nonsense. the problem with chicom rods are the consistancy of the metal composition within the rod and the debris tht may or may not show up when the rod is x-rayed. You cant tell just by looking at them.
On the plus side when you send your money over to Chicom prison factory number 27 for new rods, at least your old rod will end up there too, improving the quality of the next batch of forged rods they sell. cast rods are fine |
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#18
06-14-2011, 06:38 AM
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I regret not installing forged rods in mine, among other rookie mistakes, but obviously it really depends on the intended use because some builders use them in their packages:
Mr. Pbody (CVMS): http://www.centralvirginiamachine.com/400resto.aspx Pontiac Dude, does this basic 400 build advertised on your site include forged rods?: http://store02.prostores.com/servlet...Pontiac/Detail
__________________
Will Rivera '69 Firebird 400/461, 290+ E D-Ports, HR 230/236, 4l80E, 8.5 Rear, 3.55 gears ‘66 Lemans, 455, KRE D-Ports, TH350, 12 bolt 3.90 gears '64 LeMans 400/461, #16 Heads, HR 230/236, TKO600, 9inch Rear, 3.89 gears (Traded) '69 LeMans Vert, 350, #47 heads: Non-running project |
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#19
06-14-2011, 09:56 AM
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Another happy user of ace's bargain priced rods here. The dimensions were spot on. The OEM rods that came in my daughter's 400 engine were of unknown age/mileage and rebuilding them vs. buying new rods was a no brainer. I'm still running stock rods in my race 455 but it was built long ago before there were alternatives. Next refresh will get new rods.
I've seen too many pontiac engines sitting around the junkyard back in the day with ventilated oil pans to trust 100,000 mile used OEM rods. |
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#20
06-14-2011, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
 ) but purchasing the Forged rods in North America puts money in the local guys pocket selling them, the shipper/receiver company workers on the West coast, the UPS/FedEx/USPS workers (that includes all the airport and truck maintenance workers too) who deliver it to the customer so it's not really stealing any jobs away by using rods cast 40 years ago....it's all good.That being said, my 406 kept the stock cast rods but they will need to be totally re-done next time around so I'll buy the new Forged rods when I go through it in the fall, the machinist will still make his money from the head & block work. If you cannot stand having something "Made in China" then you're in big trouble, those buggers have their hands into everything nowadays.
__________________
 2 sons, 2 Firebirds. 1971 Formula 455, 1972/w 455 HO added.1974 Formula 400 "retired", parts car now. 
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