[63Banshee]

Like it

[gwalters]

Was glad to see someone post an informative response on the many items required to make the 61/62 swap from an original 4 to the original rare 215 V8. I have every piece to do this swap, salvaged from two 215 cars and the engine completely rebuilt by D&D (with some performance goodies hidden within). There is much that is needed to do this swap, since literally everything except the heater and steering gets moved, even the radiator necks are on the other side, along with generator and starter locations and as mentioned things like linkage, battery tray and regulator moves. I have the correct original 215 Tempest front axle and all pieces restored to like new condition (although the automatic transaxle has not been rebuilt yet) and at this time I'm strongly debating to make the swap from a rare numbers matching 61 coupe to an ultra rare 215 V8 coupe once it comes back from being painted. The 61 coupes were only made July, August and first two week of September and very few 61's are known to exist today in restored numbers matching condition and mine also has the deluxe trim. It is among the best balanced, best running fours I know of. As Gary mentioned below, mine is being painted by him at this time to get it ready for the 50th anniversary to very high points standards for our Norwalk event in 2011.

I would like opinions as to which way to go... Keep the factory drivetrain intact all original with my sweet running stock 4 banger or swap out the whole shabang and install my complete collection of 215 pieces for the whole drivetrain and engine bay but no longer being a numbers matching car. I'm leaning toward the swap, since if I ever sold it, the buyer would also get all the numbers matching items which I'd preserve in their show ready condition. Whats your opinion?

[TempestFugit]

Boy, tough call Greg. If it were almost anybody else I'd be against it. I know that you will do it to the highest standards possible. From a purely selfish perspective (I want to see it at Norwalk) I'd say go for it.

[GaryK]

Hi Greg - that is a tough call. I am leaning on keeping it all original and find another 61 coupe to put that drive train in. Interested in to seeing everyones opinions.

[63Banshee]

Already have the parts and rebuilt engine... no brainer. The original question had to do with ease of operation.

[PonchoTom6062]

If the car is a complete, well optioned original, I would keep it that way. Once you change it, it is now longer an original. I would be more inclined to find another Tempest then do the changeover to that car. This way you have a complete original and another car that some of us can drool over.

[hootsk]

Greg, if it ain't broke ... I vote for breaking up a rust-free '61 coupe with a drivetrain that's not in good shape, as opposed to one that's probably as close to perfect as what you have.

Chuck

[mechanickeith]

Greg, I am also leaning towards keeping it an original numbers matching car. Even if you keep the complete original drivetrain. Your 61 has been a 4 cyl for what, 49 years now? Why change now.

[GT182]

Not to go off track but I gotta tell you this.

A friend of mine swapped out the 4 cyclinder engine from his MGB and installed a 215. The aluminum 215 V8 is 26 lbs lighter than the stock MGB 4. Your Tempest's stock 4 is probably just as heavy as the MGBs stock 4. Your car is a bit heavier than the MGB but would benefit from the swap. His with fuel injection, switched to from the 4 bbl, with a Jag 5 speed goes like a raped ape. Lots of work and mods to do his conversion and the same will go for your Tempest too. Yeah he says it was hard to do but worth it in the long run. And you can't wipe the smile off his face. Would it be for a Tempest of your vintage being in good shape? That's something only you guys can decide. But give it a try on a Tempest that's in not such good shape first if you want to give it a go to see how it will work out. Then go all out on this one if it does.

I gotta add this too..... I dragged him to a BOP/Cadillac show last year in PA. When he pulled in I thought they were going to throw him right back out on the street. That's was until he opened the hood. He got a Best Mod trophy and people swarmed all over that car all day long.

Just my as I had to pass this along after reading about wanting to switch to a 215. If you do it, good luck. And I want to hear about it to pass it along to my friend Mike. There aren't many around wanting to or swapping a 215 V8 into anything these days.

[elefantrider]

I have seen some V8 MGs and they do look cool. However, our Tempests are about 1000lbs heavier than a MGB/MGC.

I seem to remember reading that when new, the V8 Tempests were not much faster than the 4cyls. Besides the huge cost increase, I believe that is why they didn't sell many. At least one period article said the engine was not worth the extra expense.

[Turbo Rocket Tempest]

So this is my first post, & I'm revisiting a topic that had itself answered and then questioned again. By the previous poster. I get what is being said here, battery tray shift,
Radiator & motor mounts + position. (it may appear sideways-ish but it's probably because of the 3° down angle of the tourqe tube.

What I understand now is that there is a special set of spacers and a special flex plate.

My questions have to do with the mounting of the rope drive front flange to this flexplate. I don't want a #'s matching car. Quite the opposite, actually.
I live in Wisconsin where cars rust from the ground up. So I start with a driveline first then drive to Utah to get a dry body. I have 2 Turbo rocket 215 motors from the F-85 Oldsmobile platform. I have the bellhousing for a 215 to mate the tourqe tube with the motor. I have the complete rear end down to the wheels and dipstick, cable and downshift from a 194 equipped tempest, 1962 I believe. Tourqe converter all out in the air spinning & cooling fluid I guess. So D&D will just whip me up a couple of spacers, and minus this special flexplate, I'm done? Is this flexplate weighted as to smooth out and balance the reciprocating assembly? As small as the flange on the drive shaft is I almost thought Pontiac had a double drilled crankshaft, until now. The exhaust isn't an issue because being turbocharged, it has a single 2.5 inch outlet. There's connector pipes at the rear of the manifolds and in true GM turbo fashion, all the up pipe & downpipe plumbing is on the passenger side. I was going to stroke it with a 300 Buick's crankshaft.

So someone with knowledge of the flex plate, please step up and tell me what's up and maybe where I can find it, or if D&D is reproducing it, or if it's as easy as having a standard flexplate drilled for the Delorean drive. Sorry, tempest tourqe. Turbo.

[jusjay]

the flex plate was a 2 year only part and only for the pontiac! Of all the 61-62 tempest made only about 10K had the 215 V-8. Most die early because of cooling issues with the 215 V-8. You can check with Ken at east west auto in OK for it. He will have it if one is out there. D&D can(?) make you the spacer but not the flex plate. Good Luck!

[455Grandville]

Keep in mind you're only jumping up a few cubes; 195 to 215.

Many 215s (and I like those engines) suffer from internal corrosion

[Turbo Rocket Tempest]

@ jusjay : That's what I'm talking about! Thanks for the heads up, anyone else huddle up here and let's talk more sources PLEASE! I live in Wisconsin and snow is soon upon me so I gotta get what I need for winter projects else the cars stay frozen in outbuildings.

@455Grandville : thanks for the heads up bud. I have about eleven of them but not a one of em a Pontiac, all Buick, Oldsmobile & Rover. The Turbo Rocket 215 actually has (from the factory) aluminized valves, because there's a 50/50 ethyl alcohol and distilled water mixture injected into the intake charge, to cool the boost. They solved turbo lag or spool time by giving it 11:1 compression, and a 5lb salary cap on boost. Nowadays they'd use an intercooler. I read somewhere that Buick wanted this alcohol injection in the 87 & 88 gran national, but by then laws had changed.

Either way the valve treatment was to prevent corrosion by that water/alcohol mix. The insides vary considerably from engine to engine with cooling corrosion. It's worst in Buick 215 water pump ports.

I've even got 4 Chrysler aluminum block slant 6's and they corrode there too. If you like the little aluminum 8 you'll either love or hate the slanted aluminum 6. This engine is no rookie build. It has no deck on the block, and used a copper side down asbestos side up head gasket to seal the exposed cylinder liners. Iron head. Save all of 70 lbs. I'm building a 76 feather duster mileage maker with the aluminum motor and inerts from a 170, and an aluminum case 833 OD tranny, to make 40mpg. Just to piss people off mostly, like Prius drivers, etc...

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by Turbo Rocket Tempest

@ jusjay : That's what I'm talking about! Thanks for the heads up, anyone else huddle up here and let's talk more sources PLEASE! I live in Wisconsin and snow is soon upon me so I gotta get what I need for winter projects else the cars stay frozen in outbuildings.

@455Grandville : thanks for the heads up bud. I have about eleven of them but not a one of em a Pontiac, all Buick, Oldsmobile & Rover. The Turbo Rocket 215 actually has (from the factory) aluminized valves, because there's a 50/50 ethyl alcohol and distilled water mixture injected into the intake charge, to cool the boost. They solved turbo lag or spool time by giving it 11:1 compression, and a 5lb salary cap on boost. Nowadays they'd use an intercooler. I read somewhere that Buick wanted this alcohol injection in the 87 & 88 gran national, but by then laws had changed.

Either way the valve treatment was to prevent corrosion by that water/alcohol mix. The insides vary considerably from engine to engine with cooling corrosion. It's worst in Buick 215 water pump ports.

I've even got 4 Chrysler aluminum block slant 6's and they corrode there too. If you like the little aluminum 8 you'll either love or hate the slanted aluminum 6. This engine is no rookie build. It has no deck on the block, and used a copper side down asbestos side up head gasket to seal the exposed cylinder liners. Iron head. Save all of 70 lbs. I'm building a 76 feather duster mileage maker with the aluminum motor and inerts from a 170, and an aluminum case 833 OD tranny, to make 40mpg. Just to piss people off mostly, like Prius drivers, etc...

Interesting oddball stuff -

I think Rambler made an OHV aluminum six based off their old flathead as well.

I'm familiar with the Rovers; I saved this 1969 2000TC, it's a "TC" model (Twin carbs) with factory a/c. They made a 3500B version (Buick)
Runs really well, it's an California car with no rust, it's just sitting as it needs brake work. Not sure what I'm going to do with it -

[Turbo Rocket Tempest]

Rambler. Hmmmm. I'll have to research that one.

As for the rover TC I like it. I like a lot of what rover did, sand casting the block and installing the iron cylinder liners later. If the general had thought of that one he may have kept it. I just bought a fuel injected 89 3.9 from a dingo II just to see what's different about the bore. Turns out a whole lot, they dropped the 5th head bolt and went to 4 per cyl. Then no more front case, or at least BOP case, I mean, with magnetic sensor ignition to match the fuel injection you'd have to be Volvo to keep a distributor.
Still have yet to find the oil pump. Did you know Volvo was building fuel injected OBDII compliant cars with points ignition in 1998?

That's oddball

[jusjay]

T-R-T, here is a picture of the flexplate and spacers

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by Turbo Rocket Tempest

Rambler. Hmmmm. I'll have to research that one.

As for the rover TC I like it. I like a lot of what rover did, sand casting the block and installing the iron cylinder liners later. If the general had thought of that one he may have kept it. I just bought a fuel injected 89 3.9 from a dingo II just to see what's different about the bore. Turns out a whole lot, they dropped the 5th head bolt and went to 4 per cyl. Then no more front case, or at least BOP case, I mean, with magnetic sensor ignition to match the fuel injection you'd have to be Volvo to keep a distributor.
Still have yet to find the oil pump. Did you know Volvo was building fuel injected OBDII compliant cars with points ignition in 1998?

That's oddball

The 4 cylinder was cast with large open sides and you can see the waterjackets in the block (to save weight) they had plates bolted to the side, of course.
The 5th bolt was "bowing" the cylinder head a little , so yea they went to a 4 bolt set up.
Didn't know about the Volvos, Ive owned a couple SAAB's including a rare 900SPG I rolled in a Missouri backwoods ditch playing Speed Racer.

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by GT182

Not to go off track but I gotta tell you this.

A friend of mine swapped out the 4 cyclinder engine from his MGB and installed a 215. The aluminum 215 V8 is 26 lbs lighter than the stock MGB 4. Your Tempest's stock 4 is probably just as heavy as the MGBs stock 4. Your car is a bit heavier than the MGB but would benefit from the swap. His with fuel injection, switched to from the 4 bbl, with a Jag 5 speed goes like a raped ape. Lots of work and mods to do his conversion and the same will go for your Tempest too. Yeah he says it was hard to do but worth it in the long run. And you can't wipe the smile off his face. Would it be for a Tempest of your vintage being in good shape? That's something only you guys can decide. But give it a try on a Tempest that's in not such good shape first if you want to give it a go to see how it will work out. Then go all out on this one if it does.

I gotta add this too..... I dragged him to a BOP/Cadillac show last year in PA. When he pulled in I thought they were going to throw him right back out on the street. That's was until he opened the hood. He got a Best Mod trophy and people swarmed all over that car all day long.

Just my as I had to pass this along after reading about wanting to switch to a 215. If you do it, good luck. And I want to hear about it to pass it along to my friend Mike. There aren't many around wanting to or swapping a 215 V8 into anything these days.

Yea, the B series 4 cylinder was a heavy little engine.

That was a nice setup (The factory MG V8) that was never sold over here. I think it was 74 or 75 only (the less desirable rubber bumper cars) over in the UK

Makes you wonder why BMC didn't send that car over here in V8 hungry America where gas was cheap. With an overdrive setup, they did pretty good on gas as well; probably as good or better than the emission stranged 4 cylinder of those years.