[Jonsie]

A friend and I were talking about losing power during the hurricane and portable generators and snaking the extension cords through windows/doors, whatever, into the house to power us the fridge, lights, etc.
So he says to me: What if he took an extension cord, cut off the female end, install a male end there, and make the connection between the generator and an exterior outlet?
Then go to the electric panel, throw the breaker on that circuit, fire up the generator, and have power on that one circuit! And no danger of the power going out on the grid.
I'm no electrician, but I'm thinking there has gotta be something wrong here!
What do you guys think?

[jim darlington]

Why don't you wire the generator to the electrical box . No more extension cords . You have to be selective on what you run . It depends on the size of the generator .

[GT182]

Not that way... all I can see is Sparks and FIRE. IIRC... You can do it by back feeding into the 220 dryer outlet with the Main turned off. That way it's going thru a 50 amp breaker and feeding the other breakers.

[Stuart]

That's commonly called a suicide cord. There are a couple reasons.

First, you have a cord with energized male ends on it, so it's easy to electrocute yourself.

Secondly, it's against code to backfeed a panel; there has to be a failsafe of method turning off the main power at the same time you energize the generator. People always say, "Well, it's safe as long as I remember to turn off the main breaker first", but they can't guarantee that will happen at 3am when they're tired and it's dark and they're scrambling to get the furnace running again. The failsafe method is generally a transfer switch, but it could be mechanically interlocked main and standby circuit breakers or some other approved method.

If the main breaker isn't turned off, power from the generator goes back out on the power lines outside. It's at 240vac, but when it gets to the transformer on the pole it's stepped up to 13,800 volts (or whatever primary voltage the electric utility in your area uses.) Any lineman who's working out there to restore power may be electrocuted.

(note that I use the word electrocution...an electric shock may hurt, but electrocution is when you're killed.)

Here is a link to an article from an older issue of Popular Mechanics that does a good job of showing how to properly set your house up for a portable generator. http://ne.mara.net/generator/pm_gen_install.pdf

[GT182]

Stu, I should mention that I don't agree with back feeding from a portable generator. The tranfer switch is the only proper way to go..... especially for those that have no clue how this all works safely.

I know a lot of people did it around here during the hurricane, but I just stood there and cringed when they told me what they did.

[Stuart]

Yeah, a lot of people do it that way and no one gets hurt, but that doesn't mean it's safe - I'm a professional electrical engineer and a big part of my work is designing generator backup systems, so this topic is a hot button for me.

[Alvin]

Stu & GT are correct in your safety tips... But this is an accident waiting to happen IMO...w a BIG potential loss of life.

This Thread should be pulled ASAP!!!

[Jonsie]

Thanks, guys, for your replies.
I KNEW something was wrong with what my friend was thinking! There are too many things that can go wrong.
I'll pass this along to hopefully protect him from himself - like burning down his house or electrocuting someone!

[sdx455]

They also say ,even if you have your main breaker off when back feeding your panel. You have to disconnect the main neutral wire . Somehow it can back feed the grid and shock a lineman working on the poles....

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by sdx455

They also say ,even if you have your main breaker off when back feeding your panel. You have to disconnect the main neutral wire . Somehow it can back feed the grid and shock a lineman working on the poles....

Newer code requires that, but not older Switchboxes for generators have it

[Cammer-6]

wiring is no hobby
call a professional electrician

[Mike S]

Just fyi. I have wired hundreds of transfer switches from 60 amp to 1200amps automatic and manuel. Ran into switched neutral twice because enginer wanted it, not electrical codes. If your panel is installed properly, (bonding the neutral to ground) you can't backfeed to the pole threw the neutral.
With all the power outages of late I have been back feeding my house with a generater. Can't stress enough turn that main breaker OFF if you ever plan on doing this. Can't stress enough if you don't know how DON'T.

[arbys]

After working 35 years on power outages due to storms I've seen a lot. 98% of the people who aren't electricians don't have a clue what they're getting into when jerry-rigging for temporary power. Try working 18-20 hours a day for 3 or 4 days and then coming across an 'unusual' situation. Mad hardly defines it.

[Cammer-6]

Originally Posted by arbys

After working 35 years on power outages due to storms I've seen a lot. 98% of the people who aren't electricians don't have a clue what they're getting into when jerry-rigging for temporary power. Try working 18-20 hours a day for 3 or 4 days and then coming across an 'unusual' situation. Mad hardly defines it.

Ive seen every trick in the book
replaced a meter base because the meter was booted and owner wanted power.
Used auto jumper cables to hot wire past meter. Across the top side.........
made quite a mess of everything including him.Neighbor said the guy had done it before....
correctly,phase to phase,line to load. I guess the Darwin came out in him the last time.

[arbys]

Originally Posted by Cammer-6

the last time.

That sums it up.

[PonchoV8]

Originally Posted by arbys

After working 35 years on power outages due to storms I've seen a lot. 98% of the people who aren't electricians don't have a clue what they're getting into when jerry-rigging for temporary power. Try working 18-20 hours a day for 3 or 4 days and then coming across an 'unusual' situation. Mad hardly defines it.

I'm confused how a non-union person does storm work and power outages? This does not compute.

[fiedlerh]

It's common (at least around here) to "network" the neutrals in a house. In other words, tie all the neutrals together in a junction box, no matter what circuit they are on. You have to be careful to shut off all breakers that share a neutral with the circuit you are working on. You'll get a tingle depending on the load on the other circuit(s).

[Formulabruce]

My Pops had a Transfer box installed in 2005, after a discussion, he had an professional electrician come and do it. Since my pops likes facts, I bought the 05 NEC and showed him.. Its 2012.. he has a different, local, electrician over to remove an old 2 prong outlet, and install a 3 prong, new wire, easy access, 1 hour job...He tells my Pops that he will not do any work on the house because the transfer switch is wrong. So , next time I am over, He calls the guy, who comes back, I place the NEC on the table and ask him to show me how its wrong. he starts in on the ground deal, but I said this was done in 05, it IS safe and legal... he finally relented, think he was trying to sell about $1000 dollars more work.....

[PonchoV8]

The NEC book is pretty steep isn't it?

[Formulabruce]

50-60 bucks I think I spent on that book, and fine print is what its all about!@