[Floyd Hand]

A little more info on the cams. On the factory drawings on the E-3 dated 1-27- 59, it states the the E-3 was first used in 1960, so no E-3's installed from the factory. I would now think they did that for the 60 Nascar engines.

On the factory E-2 drawing dated 7-17-56 it stated that the E-2 was first used on the 1956 with extra H/P engine.

[U47]

Floyd, first of all I remember the fit my dad had because the cam and lifters were in the trunk,-you don't forget that sort of thing and also having to come back a couple of days later to pick the car up, Second the cam was a Isky E-2 Pre #7 with a Pontiac part # and this made some kind of sensation at the dealership because "Pontiac didn't make these sort of cars or parts". Just like when in Feb of 56 my dad's younger brother shows up at our door with a new Chieftain 860 2dr wagen (Colony Suburban) with a dual quad 317 ( like everyone saying Pontiac dosen't make that ). BTW my dads younger brother was the guy who got my dad started thinking about racing Pontiac because my dads older brother bought a 57 Super 88 with J-2 (because he got dusted by the my younger uncle against his 50 Olds) and the 57 Olds lost to the Colony.
I don't know why I'm telling all this except to say I was there and lived it. Think what you want
D.

[U47]

Just came back from lunch so while I'm on I guess I should tell you about the single valve cover cut in half, then cut again low enough to adjust those valves (both sides on either side) with the engine running with a feeler gauge with the engine hot. You know you don't adjust hydraulics that way. I must have been dreaming that one too.
I also had a hard time joining this forum because of this type of thing. Twenty years ago I almost didn't join POCI for the same reason except no one said anything about the engine, What the old timers said was that no Catalina was built with a Bonneville exterior colour or a Bonneville interior. Two years ago at Barrett-Jackson when that pink Catalina conv. crossed the block with a Bonneville interior, what do you say now boys?? That car must have been a mirage too.

Don

[Floyd Hand]

Like the Pontiac order to Isky, the E-2 were not ground until after the 7th Month in 1956, so how could he have a E-2 with a Pontiac number on it in Feb. Just going by the Doc. from Pontiac.

[U47]

Floyd, you must be talking about the the 56 Colony, and I don't remember what cam was in that one. I think that one was supposed to be a 869, or 886. can't remember off hand. In fact I never saw that car run at the drag strip and I only saw it in one street race against my other uncle's 57 J-2 Olds. The Olds lost.
Don

[Floyd Hand]

Don, first thing, welcome to PY. We have pretty good discussions here and while doing it we learn maney new things. We don't always agree with each other and that makes the thread interesting. I have been on PY since 1997. Don't post to much now days unless I see a interesting post.

You spoke of a 56 Colony wagon. Was that a North of the border built Pontiac? I only remember The Chieftain 860 line, the Chieftain 870 Deluxe having wagons. The Star Chief custom series was the two door Star Chief Safari wagon.

Yes, on a above post I did mix the cars up. I reread your post and saw you were talking about the 59. Posts like this makes me dig out my 50 year collection of books and mags( around two thousand) and do more research.

[U47]

Floyd, The 860 Chieftain Colony suburban was for the U.S. The vehicle was a two door wagon (cheapest wagon like a Chevy 150 tradesman wagon). I think there is a picture in Gunnell's book "75 years of Pontiac".
My uncles wagon was a two tone white over dark green with poverty hub caps. The engine was a 316.6 with dual quads which had what we called a bat wing air cleaner. The camshaft was supposed to be a # 869 or 886?? I believe we used to call that cam the old hydro cam if my memory is correct. The automatic was a "P" type slant pan dual range 4 speed hydro (single coupling) and I don't know what rear was in it. I don't think he had the car past 1960.

Don

[Safari Larry]

Originally Posted by Floyd Hand

Don, I don't agree with you on the solid cam in the trunk story on the 59 345HP.

I'm confused about that comment. How can you not agree with something Don saw? How can you know what the dealer did? Perhaps you meant something else?

I believe the factory ordered 345 HP only came with the 524886 hyd cam.

According to 1960 Pontiac Master Parts Catalog 524886 is the camshaft part number for 1956 dual quad engine, 1958 T395A, 1959 T420A, and 1960 T425A. I believe those all used hydraulic lifters as standard equipment. But according to Pontiac '56 listing of dual quad parts, the cam part number is 522869. Perhaps the 524886 was used as a replacement for the '56 dual quad engine after the '56 model year.

Another note. The E-2 solid lifter cam was first used in the 1956 285 HP dual four engine. I also have the factory papers that states that. In Pete's book he lists a 522869 cam which was a Hyd cam for the 285 HP engine. They may have used two different cams in the first Pontiac hot rod engine, the 56 285 HP with the dual four's.

I don't know what an E-2 or E-3 cam is but I've never heard of solid lifters being installed on the "production" 1956 285hp dual four engine. Early documentation on the engine show special hydraulic lifters, not to be interchanged with the standard lifters.

I also ran a 59 two door post with the 345 HP and Hydromatic in NHRA stock classes from 1962 until 1970. Of course I ran the E-3 cam.

Looks like you won a few. I might have seen you run at the KC drag strip.

[Floyd Hand]

Larry, Yes the 58-59 and 60 HP engines did come with the 524886 cam from factory. I stated that the 59 345 hp engine came from the factory with the 524886 cam and no solid lifter cam in the trunk. You will have to show me in print or factory doc. that they did. Like I said above I have copies of the orignal Pontiac oder to Isky cams to modify the factory 524886 cams that Pontiac sent them into first the Pontiac no. 524744 which is a E-2 grind. The drawing order is dated 7-17-56. That was midyear. It clearly states this cam was first used in the 1956 285 HP engine. That means that Pontiac did have the 524886 cam in 1956. The Feb. 1956 issue of the Pontiac Service Craftsman talked of a Hyd cam. That may be the cam that Pete talked about in his book. I bet in mid year they replaced the Hyd cam with the new 523744 (E-2) for the 285 HP engine.

[Safari Larry]

Floyd, I bow to your experience and knowledge on the "cam in the trunk" issue.

For info I've collected on the 1956 285hp dual quad engine, go to http://www.PontiacSafari.com/L1Early...Quad/index.htm

There, you'll find a link to the Feb 1956 Pontiac Service Craftsmen News bulletin that describes the newly released engine, including details about the special hydraulic lifters. Also, check out the Engine / Suspension Parts List link (dated 8-1-56) where cam part number is 522869. So if a dealer were to order a replacement camshaft at that time (late in the production year), that's likely what he would get.

Production of 1957 models began Oct 17, 1956, so it's probably safe to assume that 1956 production ended about 1.5 to 2 months earlier, mid to late August. That means that the 7-17-56 drawing order is date was near end of year, not mid year.

I can't say what was going on but it would appear that if they did use the 523744 (E-2) cam in '56, it wasn't installed in but a few Pontiacs. Is the 523744 (E-2) a solid lifter cam???

[Old Goat Racer]

I love 59' Pontiac storys. Had 3 of them back in the 60's. One was a black 59 Catalina Conv. with 420A motor, HD 3-speed manual. I know the car is gone, but last seen the 389 in a 36' Ford pickup.

[65nss4spdGTO]

Ray Bisig ran a white 59 sedan, he called it the "white warrior". Ray's car ran a bit better then my dads as Ray was running solid lifters while my dads 345 HP car was still stock with the exception of a Corvette shifter installed on the floor.

[BruceWilkie]

FWIW I have a 59 motor that was built for racing in 1962 and never run. I found it in a wood pile all taped up next to a 59 Catalina I was buying. The Cat had the original 420A motor in it (numbers matched vin) The other 59 motor was missing intake and exhaust and the pan had rusted through the bottom. It was unknown to me at the time that it had been "built". I only took the motor because the guy insisted. After sitting in my garage a few months I got curious about why the ports were sealed so well. Removing the tape revealed some nicely detailed ports. I pulled the valve covers and valley pan. Clean dried up oil and mouse hotels. Double nuts on the rockers suggested solids so I checked for and measured the lash. .012"/.015" intake/exhaust. The heads were non "x" "o" stamped. I pulled the heads and found domed pistons highly polished/detailed NO signs of the engine ever being run. The heads were machined chambers polished. A few cylinders had light rust/grease (dried up oil?). The cam was unused with no nitriding anywhere. Edge orifice solid lifters light weight pushrods, valvetrain set up to oil thru the pushrods vs the studs. It took me quite a while to figure out the cam. # 6 on the rear and #4 on the nose. Jims book describing the E2 grind clued me in. I still have the cam lifters and pushrods. The pistons are JE 4.12 bore. The rods were early SD and I sold them. The bearings are 10/10 dated 62 and will get reused next time I need a set of 10/10 bearings. They are as new with no scratches. I'll probably never use the cam and lifters so if someone else wants to, let me know, just cover my shipping costs. This 59 block is just a std 2 bolt block but every bit the same as the 420A block except 2 bolt mains. The 420a block and 59 Cat are in ohio somewhere these days. The heads and tripower went elsewhere in the midwest. I had some tough $ times with cancer a few years back and E-bayed the other 59 heads and the long branch exhaust manifolds. I'm using the 59 block for a turbo'd combo I'm building for my 84 GP. The 59 armasteel crank was also detailed. I'm saving it for now. This motor had a very large oil pickup on it tack welded to the pump. It was pretty nasty with rust/mud where the pan sat on the ground and rotted. The 59had a steel plate welded to the frame over the bell housing. The built 59 motor had a hydro bell housing on it but a Harvey Machine aluminum flywheel and clutch on it. The aluminum had corroded so bad that when I turned the first clutch bolt it tore a huge chunk out instead. The original bell was on the 420a motor. Bell and hd 3 speed came up missing yet nothing else near it touched. No clue. The car had a Stewart Warner "SD" tach that still worked and it got ebayed. Guy in ohio that bought it is still working on the 59. Wish I could have kept it.

I also parted with a 51,000 original mile NY survivor 55 Starcheif custom Catalina 2dr hdtp. Original leather interior power brakes automatic power steering. Old lady owned it. Typical NY rust around the headlight buckets. She tried to touch up herself and I think it helped some. Bronze with cream upper half.She had it serviced regularly too! The rear seat and carpet appeared as if no one was ever in there, bronze/white interior. 1 tiny tear on the lower side of front seat next to seat lever. It ran perfect, I made a little money but really didnt like parting with it. Neither did my wife. A really sweet car.

[Ken Riebel]

Bruce, you have a p.m.

[Rocky 389]

and another from me

[Nostalgic1]

Remembering this car and regret selling it. Less than 1% of the 77,000 Bonnevilles were manual trans ....and,with factory tripower 389 nascar motor and long branch manifolds in the larger Bonneville ...had to be be a one of a kind. It stayed in Pennsylvania ....but lost the buyers info. Hopefully it pops up. Would love to know what is going on with the car.

[Rocky 389]

I loved reading this thread. Well after the beginning of this thread, [2009] I bought the engine/trans out of a 59 ambulance. The car had floor mounted pedals, which really surprised me. I thought all 59 Pontiacs had swinging pedals. I had very little time with this car so I grabbed a choice few parts from it. I was able to scarf up the clutch linkage "compounder" assembly and that's about all. The transmission is the 9 bolt borg-warner T-85 heavy duty 3 speed talked about in this thread but with the giant 2 piece driveshaft, it has no slip yoke. The shaft flange bolts on to the output like a truck. I don't know, maybe all 59 pontiacs [2 piece shafts?] have this arrangement.
The "886" camshaft has been talked about there too. I have one I found in my 57 engine but knowing very little about it I replaced it with a Lunati grind. I'd love to know how these cams performed and how they sounded. I now have a 59, 260 HP engine from that ambulance and the 886 cam may go in it.