[Rocky Rotella]

The earliest billing invoice I have for a 1969 Firebird with the code-348 400-inch option shows a ship date of mid-November 1968.

Might anyone have PHS info (or own an actual vehicle!) for a 1969 Firebird equipped with the code-348 400 and a build date prior to that?

[FBird69]

Rocky, Was Pontiac using different nomenclature for the 400 HO or R/A depending on build factory (Norwood vs. VanNuys)? Mine was built at Norwood the 3rd week in November and the dates on the bottom of my PHS are 12/03/68 12/12/68, and 12/27/68 - I can't make out which date is what from the copy supplied, I did previously sent you a scan. My 348 option is listed as "F/B 400 R/A", why would a "F/B 400 HO" precede the R/A designation, it doesn't make sense to me?

[The Boss]

348 was listed as the RA rather than HO early in the year.

Since it didn't actually include the Ram Air they changed it.

[Rocky Rotella]

FBird69, I don't think it was plant specific since Pontiac accounting handled the billing. I'm hoping an billing invoice from an early-built car will tell that tale.

Boss, have you seen in Pontiac printed material (besides a billing invoice), where it lists 348 as RA?

[FBird69]

Originally Posted by The Boss

348 was listed as the RA rather than HO early in the year.

Since it didn't actually include the Ram Air they changed it.

Yeah, I get that. Rocky is saying he has a "HO" that is older than my "R/A", which should be the other way around - the R/A was first followed by the HO. So, my question is why would Pontiac be using the R/A designation after they started using the HO?

[johnta1]

I think this may have been your post from a few years ago?
(or posted in it anyway)

69 RA III Bird

Some info in it.

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by Rocky Rotella

FBird69, I don't think it was plant specific since Pontiac accounting handled the billing. I'm hoping an billing invoice from an early-built car will tell that tale.

Boss, have you seen in Pontiac printed material (besides a billing invoice), where it lists 348 as RA?

I've never gone looking for that Rocky, so I can't say that I have or haven't.

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by FBird69

Yeah, I get that. Rocky is saying he has a "HO" that is older than my "R/A", which should be the other way around - the R/A was first followed by the HO. So, my question is why would Pontiac be using the R/A designation after they started using the HO?

I don't think he said that - I think he's trying to find where/when/why that change took place....RA-HO.

[comanchefirebird]

Originally Posted by Rocky Rotella

The earliest billing invoice I have for a 1969 Firebird with the code-348 400-inch option shows a ship date of mid-November 1968.

Might anyone have PHS info (or own an actual vehicle!) for a 1969 Firebird equipped with the code-348 400 and a build date prior to that?

I have a couple of cars with "F/B 400 R/A" on the PHS like FBird69, one shipped Nov 18 and the other Nov 20, 1968

Steve

[70Steve]

I think mine was 22 November 68...exported to Australia, I'm sure I put the PHS up on a thread about non RA, RA cars somewhere.

[comanchefirebird]

Originally Posted by Rocky Rotella

The earliest billing invoice I have for a 1969 Firebird with the code-348 400-inch option shows a ship date of mid-November 1968.

Might anyone have PHS info (or own an actual vehicle!) for a 1969 Firebird equipped with the code-348 400 and a build date prior to that?

Hi Rocky,
Just found another one, on ebay. This carousel red, L74, M21 car was shipped 10/28 !
Earliest one yet that I know of. Pic of documentation attached.
Looks like the car sat on the lot until Aug of 1969 before it was purchased. Being Winnipeg, it likely resided in the dealers showroom over the winter.
Steve

[north]

The following may or may not help but I thought it interesting...

My collection of 69 GTO PHS's has 49 Ram Air (non Judge and non RA IV) GTO's and we have similar confusion:

PHS: up to Jan 16 the L74 lists as 4BBL 400 ENG, Jan 20 and up it's 4BBL 400 R/A

Buildsheet: early: 400 HO 4BBL V8, late: ENG 400 RAM

Windowsticker: early: 400 HO 4BBL V8 ENGINE, Late: 400 4BBL RA ENGINE

Now bear in mind that all L74 GTO's had RA systems and that the earliest L74 GTO I have ever seen or heard of was built December 18 68. I assume the delay was related to the RA system since the engine was mechanically the same as the 68 HO.

Two questions;

1... Were L74 Firebirds available at start of production or only after date x?
2... Were Firebirds with 611 hood air inlet available from start of production or after date x?

last tidbit... a GTO with L74 (included RA system) was $168.51, Firebird with L74 and 611 had combined cost of $161.14

[Rocky Rotella]

Thanks, guys. We had a busy weekend and just catching up now. The information helps!

I spoke to the gentleman with the Firebird on eBay. It's interesting to note that his car was built 9C but not imported (shipped) into Canada until 10/28/68 per the PHS invoice.

That makes me wonder, was it common for cars to sit several weeks before being delivered into Canada? And where would valuable goods (a car) be staged during those several weeks if there were the case? Or was this Firebird setting in a holding lot during that time, almost as if it were waiting for additional equipment?

[north]

Cars sent to canada went by rail and were stored like other cars at the plant (all plants had rail car loading areas). 4-5 weeks is very long though, most likely pontiac only billed GM Canada once the car was actually delivered? Or the car had a repair issue at the plant, but again 4-5 weeks seems long.

Years ago I had a Pontiac plant built 70 Judge that had a cylinder head replaced at the plant and it was still shipped within a week.

[johnta1]

I would think it sat at a zone area here in the USA, then it was shipped to Canada.

I would think the interesting thing is it shipped to Canada in 10/28/68but wasn't sold until 9-22-1969!

[2manyIndians]

This car was built the 1st week of Dec 69.

PHS shows its and HO car

400HO M21 3.90 ZK code posi

[north]

Nice! What color is that, CT? Did it have the ram air option?

[2manyIndians]

Yes its CT and no it wasn't ordered with the RA option. I bought this car in 1975 when I was a senior in high school. It had had the right rear quarter bashed in already and the original tranny was gone. Well we put an original 69 M-21 together and installed it and replaced the right rear quarter, painted it and now its on the road again. It came with steel wheels and poverty caps that are down in my shop. Ive got E-14 red lines on them for the shows. I forgot how bad those 3.90 gears are on the freeway. Great around town but with the pypes exhaust its horrible to drive on the freeway. Soft ray window in the front and an am-fm radio and that was it.

[74SDformula]

On these 400HO cars, when one also ordered the hood air inlet option did the cars get "RAM AIR" stickers on the hood instead of the 400 emblems?

[north]

Correct, ram air hoods were not hole punched for the 400 emblems.