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#1
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The 1969 GP 428HO Car Life Magazine road test car
Since its cold January nights I feel its time we get a interesting query thread on here.
I know that Motor Trend in Oct 1968 tested a 1969 Grand 428 -370HP automatic car. I know it was a TH-400, 3.23 posi, A/C car that ran 16.5 @ 86 mph. This is even in Mike Noun's reports. I have always wondered quite often about the road test car report for the 1969 Grand Prix from Car Life magazine? It is referenced on a few internet sites as a 428HO- 390HP car that ran 14.1 sec @ 95.3 mph. I have never ever seen the article myself so I have no idea exactly what it was. But heard it referenced by individuals that it was a 3.90 gear car. I have read it was a TH-400 car on one site and others state it as a 4 speed. Thus if it was actually a 4speed 3.90 car it being one of the 22 cars with the M21 installed. What I wonder as I travel the roads for business and thinking. If it is or was 1 of the 22 has it ever been found ? And how many the 22 cars have been found and documented? I'm sure Grant you must have some info. Let the discussion begin... |
#2
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At least one:
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'63 LeMans Convertible '63 Grand Prix '65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer '74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/ My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524 "Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926 |
#3
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I believe the test(s) where a 1969 Grand Prix ran 14.0 to 14.3 were Royal Pontiac prepared. One was Jim Wangers' personal car, and had the Royal Bobcat paint scheme. Not sure if it was Jim's car that made the rounds, or a couple different GP's.
This is the stat sheet from the Feb 1969 Car And Driver test. They tested two Grand Prixs, one with and one without the Bobcat kit. The stats in parenthesis are the numbers for the Royal Bobcat Grand Prix, and it had 3.90 (or 3.91) gears and a 4-speed.
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1959-1980 Pontiac Window Sticker Reproductions : http://www.pontiacwindowstickers.com My Bio: I am currently writing articles for POCI's Smoke Signals magazine and enjoy promoting and discussing the history of the Pontiac Motor Division. |
#4
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The HiPo 69 brochure also references a MotorTrend test of two similar cars... A 428HO 4spd with 3.90's and an automatic 370 horse AC car. The photos show the 4speed car having a gold leather interior with a dash tach while the automatic car has a black optional cloth interior.
However the main exterior photo is of the gold interior leather car and it has a hood tach (Car is Expresso brown). The other car is either black or nocturne blue (GP only color) with redlines and a hood tach).
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My Break Away Squad 1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops) 1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt) 1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon 1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop) 1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop) 1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon 1969 Executive 4dr Sedan 1969 Bonnie Cvt 1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them) 1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt) 1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them) 1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model) |
#5
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A few questions. 1) When you say the tests do you mean the 2 Car and Driver tests listed here ? 2) Do you have the info on the Car Life test car ? 3) The Motor Trend test car was a 428-370 HP car? Do you think itwas same car that was thrashed and used for Car and Diver tests? When I look up the great list you compiled of road tests. http://www.angelfire.com/on/geebjen/roadtest.html Quote:
It shows there is a test car that is a 428HO 4 speed 3.90 gear. Looks like car is Midnight green kinda. with gold leather. But I will go to shop and review pic some more. Dave |
#6
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the bobcat car road test was reprinted in a issue of HPP mag. I searched on the hot rod web site, but couldn't find anything. it's got to be out there somewhere.
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#7
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Hi Dave, wow, I simply can't believe that old Road Tests compilation is still out there! I did that in 1999 on an old PC that still used 3-1/2" disks. There were a lot more road tests to include. Around 2002, I converted the text into a MS Word format, and included photos and a summary of each road test, making for a nice 100-page book, but never completed the project.
Not sure which GP was which in those road tests, I never really analyzed those, as I focused more on the Birds and Goats. Wangers supplied a 69 Grand Prix to CARS Magazine that was Matador Red with white accents, with a Royal Bobcat paint scheme that replicated the famous 1969 GTO Royal Bobcat RAV GTO paint scheme, but in red/white. This was his car in the May, 1969 CARS Magazine issue.
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1959-1980 Pontiac Window Sticker Reproductions : http://www.pontiacwindowstickers.com My Bio: I am currently writing articles for POCI's Smoke Signals magazine and enjoy promoting and discussing the history of the Pontiac Motor Division. |
#8
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The car of Jim's was the Royal Bobcat car then. So the Royal Bobcat car was probably Jim's car that was used.
But I think the other road tests cars were not Royal cars. This is out of the brochure and it refers to 2 GP's tested. The other is a 370 HP auto car. Mike i think it maybe the car you refered to in the old 1999 list as being already beat on hard when M/T got it. |
#9
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390 HP, Turbo 400, 3.90:1
Here's a road test for a '69 SJ with the 390 horse motor but connected to the Turbo 400. Same 3.90 gears. This is out of the '69 CARS magazine SUPERCARS annual issue. To say they liked the car is a bit of an understatement. 14.95 @ 94.7.
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#10
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This is the Royal car that had a hood tach. Factory option load or dealer installed at Royal?
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Rich Johns Owner/Operator of Pure Stock Auto Restorations Inc. www.purestockauto.com 1969 GTO Judge Ram Air IV M21 4 speed 3:90 1970 GTO Judge Ram Air III M21 4 speed 3:90 Oshawa Built 1970 GSX Stage 1 M21 4 Speed 3.64 # 67 of 678 Original Paint 1970 GSX Stage 1 Auto 3.64 # 603 of 678 12.44@109.73 mph 2011 Buick GS Nats Pure Stock, 12.71@110.64 mph PSMCDR 2011 1970 GS Stage 1 Convertible Auto 3:64 12.71@109.15 mph PSMCDR 2009 1970 GS 455 M21 4 Speed 3.42 1987 GN Astro Roof |
#11
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The Matador Red car that Keith posted is the only one that I've actually seen that is documented. One other would be the test car you spoke of shown in the Motor Trend Performance Brochure which appears to be the same car photoed in the 1969 Wide Track performance poster set. This car is Expresso Brown with Gold Leather interior, I've never heard if this car survived or not? I've often wondered if its still out there. Grant |
#12
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Somewhere there's a Cars magazine article that was reprinted in the late 70's in one of Marty Schorrs publications, and I believe the early HPP republished, the GP was running low 14's. Believe it was Joe Oldham that referred to his associate Gromer as his "preshrunk" roadtest driver.
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Buzzards gotta eat... same as worms. Last edited by 'ol Pinion head; 01-23-2016 at 04:55 PM. |
#13
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#14
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Thanks, for some reason that stuck in my head. Up in the attic have a box full of ThunderAms, several of the old Marty Schorr books, from the late '70's. Mr Schorr, Oldham, Gromer, all of those fellows were part of Cars, before CSK, and HPP. Was always hard to find the old Cars Illustrated's here in the SW, being Cars was an East Coast published mag.
MRGPHO, do you have any info, a sales bulletin, possibly, when pwr disc brakes became std equip on a '69 GP?
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Buzzards gotta eat... same as worms. |
#15
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I couldn't remember what magazine I got it out of but I've had this clipping tacked to my wall for 20+ years. I do know the article was called "Das Boat" and it was a Royal Bobcat 428HO-4 spd-3:90 car.
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Attitude Counts--Life is 10% what happens to us and 90% how we react to it Don 1971 Grand Prix J - Bluestone Gray - Survivor 1967 GTO Hdtp - Montreux Blue - Project 1971 Honda CB500 Four - Orange Metallic - Restored 1963 1/2 Ford Galaxie 500 XL - 427 dual quad - shed find |
#16
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This thread is brought info I was never aware of before !!
Quote:
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Car and Driver tested 2 HO cars ( 4 speed and auto) and Car Life also tested 2 cars ?? Quote:
In this Hemmings article below between Joe and Jim Wangers in 2009. Jim says there was 12 Bobcats built ( 6 - 4 speed and 6 auto) . Would all these been 3.90 gear cars ? http://www.hemmings.com/magazine/mus...e/1932741.html |
#17
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#18
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Maybe another idea would be to start a thread with a list of all the articles on the 69 GP that have appeared in current magazines? I could probably find about 15 such articles. |
#19
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Here is some interesting detail on GP 428 engines.
All 69 428 GP engines received 62 heads. Standard GP SJ 428's had very mild cams 066 for XF auto and 067 for 4 speed 428. Keep in mind, standard 69 Firebird YT and GTO YS engines with auto trans had bigger 067 camshaft. So in a bigger cube 428 these cams are even milder! Auto trans XG code 428 HO engine received 067 camshaft which is the standard camshaft in a lowly YS code 400 in a regular auto trans 69 GTO and Firebird. Only the 69 GP 428 HO WL code received the O68 Ram Air camshaft. Also, all 69 GP standard 370 hp and 390 hp 428 HO's received the same standard non ram air carbs 7029268 auto and 7029263 for 4 speeds. When you consider that the 428 HO engine upgrade was $184.80 all you really got especially in auto trans application were long branch exhaust manifolds and thus oil filter rotator block. Pontiac made great money and essentially gave you very little for the 69 GP 428 HO engine upgrade.
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Rich Johns Owner/Operator of Pure Stock Auto Restorations Inc. www.purestockauto.com 1969 GTO Judge Ram Air IV M21 4 speed 3:90 1970 GTO Judge Ram Air III M21 4 speed 3:90 Oshawa Built 1970 GSX Stage 1 M21 4 Speed 3.64 # 67 of 678 Original Paint 1970 GSX Stage 1 Auto 3.64 # 603 of 678 12.44@109.73 mph 2011 Buick GS Nats Pure Stock, 12.71@110.64 mph PSMCDR 2011 1970 GS Stage 1 Convertible Auto 3:64 12.71@109.15 mph PSMCDR 2009 1970 GS 455 M21 4 Speed 3.42 1987 GN Astro Roof Last edited by trishieldchief; 01-24-2016 at 06:19 PM. |
#20
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