[NBF823]

Mobile 1 in all of them.

[muscle_collector]

Originally Posted by GT182

I only use Valvoline and have for years and years because of the following. It's the only oil where the inside of an engine I'd seen was as clean as the day it came off the dealer's lot. No sludge or gunk in it at all. The Chevy p/u had 100,000+ miles on it and the oil was faithfully changed every 3,000 miles. If I had seen it I wouldn't have believed it.

My 79 Formula spun a bearing in the engine and I believe it was from using Rotella 15-40 diesel oil. Never again in a gas engine.

Edit:
I forgot to add that in my 66 GTO I only run Valvoline VR-1 20w-50 Racing Oil.

I agree with this. in 1984 I bought a new gmc dually 454 with 4:56 rear. I used Valvoline racing oil and changed the oil every 2500 to 3000 miles and at 250k for no real reason I decided to pull the engine and rebuild it. absolutely zero sludge or build up not even dark burned looking places. oil pan and valve covers were literally like new looking inside. engine had virtually no wear on it no ring ridge. one rod bearing had the copper showing in a small place.
now I run mobil 1 in the escalade, motorcraft in all the fords, and Valvoline in the chevy / gmc trucks

[rohrt]

Originally Posted by GT182

I only use Valvoline and have for years and years because of the following. It's the only oil where the inside of an engine I'd seen was as clean as the day it came off the dealer's lot. No sludge or gunk in it at all. The Chevy p/u had 100,000+ miles on it and the oil was faithfully changed every 3,000 miles. If I had seen it I wouldn't have believed it.

My 79 Formula spun a bearing in the engine and I believe it was from using Rotella 15-40 diesel oil. Never again in a gas engine.

Edit:
I forgot to add that in my 66 GTO I only run Valvoline VR-1 20w-50 Racing Oil.

I was told years ago like back in the late 80s that Quaker state and Penzoil were the worst oils out there and if I saw a motor that was coked up it was most likely running one of those oils.


I too used to use Valvoline and the inside of my motors have always been clean.

[zeebo]

anyone run formula shell? i too run valvoline and formula shell with ac delco non E filters or baldwin filters. ac delco ultraguards are really nice filters but super hard to find.

[rohrt]

Things I have learned today.

API classifications (The American Petroleum Institute)
http://www.pqiamerica.com/apiserviceclass.htm

SAE 5-30 is not the same as an SAE 5W-30.
I would think the API SJ oil would have the correct levels of ZDDP?

Another API classifications site
http://www.api.org/~/media/Files/Oil...0210.pdf?la=en
What the hell is ILSAC standard?


http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2012...-what-why-how/
In 1941, the oil and gasoline additive company Lubrizol developed Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphates, or ZDDP. Commonly referred to simply as “Zinc”
acts as an oil anti-oxidan.
found to be a remarkably effective anti-wear agent, a true extreme pressure or EP additive for heavily loaded steel-on-steel sliding mechanisms such as camshafts and valve lifters or tappets
In 1992, an API-rated SH oil contained 1,200 parts per million (ppm) of phosphorus
in 1996 SJ contained 1,000 ppm.
It was not until 2001, when the rating went to SL, that we all started to see camshaft problems appear.

In 2001, SL-rated oil still contained 1,000 ppm of phosphorous, and it is the phosphorous that limits are set on. But this limits the amount of ZDDP an oil manufacturer can use. The rating was changed due to demands for increased engine cleanliness standards.

Higher levels of detergents were introduced to meet these standards and camshaft problems began. It was not until 2004, when SM rated oils, with their limited 800 ppm phosphorus were introduced, that cam failures greatly increased.

ZDDP attacks or “poisons” catalytic converters

The then-current CJ-4 rated diesel oil had a phosphorus limit of 1,200 ppm

ZDDP is a “class” of additives today, not just one particular chemical. These additives are the predominant anti-wear agents. Because diesel engines tend to run considerably hotter around the piston rings, ZDDP tends to decompose and produces a lacquer on cylinder walls. But, because of their heavy duty design and superior metallurgy, they have fewer wear problems than their gasoline counterparts.

For simpler diesel oil, a more stable, less potent form of ZDDP can be used. When developing multipurpose motor oils, for gasoline engines and high-speed passenger car diesel engines, careful decisions must be made in selecting the form of ZDDP, or a balanced mixture of 2 or more types may be used.

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...ppet-cam-tech/
(This article recommends the diesel oil for flat tappets)
Grade Zinc, Phos
SM MAX 800
SL/SJ 1000-1400
SH 1000-1400
SG 1000-1400
SF 1000-1400
SE 1000-1200
SD 1000-1200
SC 1000-1200
SB 1000
SA 0

Comp Cams swears by Shell Rotella T diesel oil for use in high-performance street cars
The drawback, if any, would be on a high-mileage engine where blow-by can cause detergent to accumulate in the combustion chamber, possibly contributing to detonation.
Even better than diesel oil are specially formulated racing motor oils. Although the most expensive solution,these oils usually contain even more antiwear additives than dieseltruck oil, as well as other performance-enhancing ingredients specifically designed for hardcore, high-performance gasoline engine usage. According to Cosworth's Thomas Hayden, some diesel oils may not have friction modifiers that he claims are helpful in preventing piston scuff on high-performance gasoline engines, especially if running modern low multiviscosity oils. But Dan Arcy, technical marketing manager for Shell Lubricants, takes issue with the importance of friction modifiers,which he says "are only present in the very low viscosity GF-4 oils forfuel economy reasons."



https://www.amsoil.com/techservicesb...t%20Tappet.pdf

ZDDP contains
both zinc and phosphorus components working together
to provide anti-wear protection, and is most important
during cam “break-in” procedures

high-performance modified engines, benefit from oils with superior film strength and anti-wear properties. (well that's nice what oil is that?)

Primary Recommendations
Phosphorus Level (ppm) / Zinc Level (ppm)
Break-In Oil (BRK) 2040 / 2265
Z-ROD® 10W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil (ZRT) 1320 1440
Z-ROD® 20W-50 Synthetic Motor Oil (ZRF) 1320 1440

Secondary Recommendations
Phosphorus Level (ppm) / Zinc Level (ppm)
Premium Protection 10W-40 Synthetic Motor Oil (AMO) 1265 1378
Premium Protection 20W-50 Synthetic Motor Oil (ARO) 1266 1379
Series 3000 5W-30 Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel Oil (HDD) 1266 1379
15W-40 Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel and Marine Motor Oil (AME) 1267 1377

AMSOIL Synthetic Racing Oils
Phosphorus Level (ppm) / Zinc Level (ppm)
DOMINATOR® 5W-20 Synthetic Racing Oil (RD20) 1424 1575
DOMINATOR® 10W-30 Synthetic Racing Oil (RD30) 1424 1575
DOMINATOR® 15W-50 Synthetic Racing Oil (RD50) 1424 1575
DOMINATOR® SAE 60 Synthetic Racing Oil (RD60) 1424 1575

AMSOIL Break-In Oil (BRK) is formulated without friction
modifiers to allow quick and efficient piston ring seating in
new and rebuilt high-performance and racing engines. It
contains zinc and phosphorus anti-wear additives to protect
cam lobes, lifters and rockers during the critical breakin
period when wear rates are highest.

AMSOIL Z-ROD® 10W-30 (ZRT) and 20W-50 (ZRF) Synthetic
Motor Oils are formulated with high zinc and phosphorus
levels to provide superior protection in gasoline
engines with flat-tappet camshafts. Z-ROD also contains
*high levels of rust and corrosion inhibitors for maximum
protection during long periods of storage*
(This stuff is around $10.50 a quart! Need to sign up and order straight from a warehouse. WTF! Sounds like good Sh!t though $64.50 for 6 quarts not including shipping )

Valvoline VR1
Zinc/Phosphorus 0.14/0.13
Around $35 for 6 quarts Amazone


http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.ph...highlight=zddp
While an oil with high ZDDP is great, the other factor to consider is detergent, mainly Calcium these days.

Calcium and ZDDP fight each other in the oil.. In a nutshell, the ZDDP works to lay a anti-wear film on the parts, and the calcium works to clean that off.

When choosing an oil to use as the base for your bottle of ZDDP, if your going that way, it's important to get one with the lowest levels of detergent you can find.

The calcium PPM does in fact vary from brand to brand (oils that contains Calcium..sae API SM/SL/CF/sj/ SM oils have lots of it.)

"Can I say something here. I'm 66 years old, and own my shop for 35 years now. Before that I was a mechanic at a GM dealer. Been at this for 47 years. I've raced Chevy, Pontiacs, and Buicks. I have used One brand of oil for the past 35 years. It works and I can prove it. I got One man with a one ton Chevy. truck with a 454 that went 496,000 miles before the timing chain went out. At 410,000 it started to sound like it had a little piston slap. I took the valve cover off for the first time and wanted to look at a lifter. I pulled one I could get to and had to take it outside in the sun light to see any wear. I sell one kind oil and use 40w in the summer and 30w in the winter. Remember I'm in KY. and it doesn't get as cold as the northen states do. In older made engines that have more piston to wall clearance than the cars of today this is what I use and It works good. Shell Rotello-T truck oil. It's super clean but the Gov. has taken the zink out of it too. Two years ago. So I add Red Line zink additive to the oil now. I run some class 8 road tractors out of here too. Line haul trucks with the big bore engines run 1.1 to 1.2 million miles before overhaul. And Shell Rotello-T oil is in them also. Some newer truck we do ues 15-40 because of tight piston clearance and after 400,000 we go back to the 30w or 40w straight weight oils. So men do what you want, but This works for me and my customers. By the way I have just started putting a 63 Buick together for myself. 2 door HT Rock a Billy car, like back in my day. I'm using a 431 Nailhead 2X4 motor that I did a year or two ago. and 3:23 pois. and I'm changing it over to a straight shift too. 4 speed. I had one in the mid-70. It was a 3 speed when I got it, and I put a 4 speed in it. The 3 speed did run better, but I liked the 4 back then. You can see this engine run on you tube---425 buick nailhead test stand by steven gooch. I'm in my part of the garage with my toys. Thank you for your time. Kenneth Robinson. Vintage Iron Car Club. Look it up on the net. it's fun to watch."

I recently installed a Crower cam in a RAIII Pontiac and their recommendation for break-in oil was 30W non-detergent or race-only petroleum based and a bottle of Zddplus. They were quite specific when they stated "do not use muti-viscosity or synthetic due to the fact that it has detergent...................mulit-viscosity is fine after initial break-in.........."

http://www.drivenracingoil.com/news/...now-motor-oil/
BALANCE IS BEST
Second, more is not better. If some ZDDP (Zinc) is good, then more has to be better, right? Nope. Too much of any one thing in a lubricant, or even the lubricant itself, is damaging.

http://www.drivenracingoil.com/news/...p-engine-oils/
ZDP (often called ZDDP or Zinc)
ZDP forms a sacrificial film on the surfaces of the components it is intending to protect. This film slowly wears away, sacrificing itself instead of allowing metal-to-metal contact.

At first all ZDPs were very chemically active. They solubilized into the oil quickly and immediately began protecting vital surfaces. However, researchers discovered that very active ZDPs became rapidly depleted and were only able to protect engine components for a short period of time.

The Seq. IV dynamometer engine test was developed to make certain that future, less active, ZDPs were developed to offer engine protection which lasted longer than just a few moments. Today additive manufacturers have even developed ZDPs which protect exhaust emissions equipment (catalytic converters and particulate traps) better than previous ZDPs, and these new ZDPs are found in the current API SN specification motor oils.

Over the years researchers and lube oil blenders discovered that a good ZDP could be rendered practically useless by improper blending of the lubricant. Most ZDPs activate in a distinct temperature range. Different ZDPs activate at different temperatures. Temperature activation is designed to occur at those temperatures experienced by the camshaft/lifter interface. If ZDP is added to cold oils, it may not go into solution at all and precipitate out into the crankcase. If ZDP is added to overly hot oil, the ZDP may activate in the crankcase (or sump) before getting to the valve train components it is supposed to protect.

The detergents in high-detergent oils often compete with the ZDP for the cam and lifter surfaces, resulting in those components having insufficient metal surface for the ZDP film to be effective. ZDP must be kept separate from detergents during the blending process. That’s why most racing oils contain low levels of detergents – the ZDP is more effective for better valve train protection.

http://www.drivenracingoil.com/news/...compatibility/
The End Of “Backwards Compatibility”
Porsche announced its own line of “classic” motor oils designed for the needs of older engines. its “Hot Rod” motor oil.

http://www.drivenracingoil.com/news/...et-rod-owners/
FAQs For Classic Vehicle And Street Rod Owners
1: How often should I change my oil?
2: Do I need break-in oil, and how long do you use break-in oil?
3: What viscosity oil should I run?
1—Run as low a viscosity as will yield 25 to 30 psi oil pressure at idle when the engine is warmed up.
2—Use one viscosity grade lower synthetic oil than you currently run if you utilize conventional oil.
4: Do I need to do anything special for winter storage?
Using an oil with storage protection additives is recommended. Some motor oils have extra rust and corrosion inhibitor additives that make them better suited for wintertime. Also, it is important to change the oil before you put your street rod away for the winter
5: Do I need to use a “high Zinc” oil after break-in?

http://www.compcams.com/Products/CC-'Lubricants'-1.aspx
The COMP Cams® Muscle Car & Street Rod Engine Oil is a new, blended-synthetic oil that delivers the time-tested wear protection of a mineral oil with the advanced performance, extended change intervals and internal cleanliness of a synthetic. Special corrosive protection additives and optimum amounts of ZDDP (Zinc and Phosphorous) provide unmatched anti-wear properties, even during extended periods of storage. This advanced engine oil is available in both 10W30 and 15W50 formulas and is perfect for late model or classic engines with flat tappet valve trains. After incorporating three decades of internal engine know-how and extensive testing data, we're certain that there's nothing better for your muscle car or street rod. ($7 each)

http://www.opelclub.com/ZDDP2.pdf
ZDDP is most effective if the concentration is between 0.18 % and 0.20 % by weight. Higher ZDDP concentration has no effect except to prolong additive life.

[floffy]

Valvoline 20w50 vr1 race oil in my 72 ho formula

[Will]

Originally Posted by rohrt

I was told years ago like back in the late 80s that Quaker state and Penzoil were the worst oils out there and if I saw a motor that was coked up it was most likely running one of those oils.

This is BS.

Any brand name oil is fine. Heck, the parts store brands are fine too. The important thing is to change it and the filter regularly and make sure the PCV is functioning properly.

My Formula had 130K on it when I tore the engine down, and I really shouldn't have done that because it was running fine other than it would puff a tiny bit of blue smoke if you jumped on it from a roll. But, I was a dumb kid and that's what dumb kids do.

That car had never had anything but Pennzoil in it, and it was changed religiously every 3000 miles. Engine was clean as a whistle inside, just the barest film of varnish. Bearings were all perfect, just a small ridge at the top of the cylinders.

My daily driver is currently a '97 Honda beater with 175K on it. I put whatever oil is cheapest in it and change it every 4K - 5K miles. I'm not planning to own this car for more than 2-3 years, at which point it will probably have another 40-60K on it. All it has to do is keep running, and I'm sure it will.

[Heybuck]

I have used Diesel oil in my '66 Grand Prix ever since I had the motor completely rebuilt to standard specs. My engine guy - real "old school" type of guy - recommended I run diesel in it from first start till it was run in due to potential wear issues with it being a flat tappet type engine.

I asked if he thought that continuing to run diesel oil in it would be better than moving to a full synthetic or full mineral oil? His recommendation was the diesel will always be the best choice. Car has recently turned over 40 thousand miles, never uses a drop, oil always stays remarkably clean,

So clean in fact that with me always watching the pennies, I now re-use the Grand Prix oil in my Toyota Hi-Ace Diesel Van.

I always change the van oil and filter every 5000 kilometres and considering the Pontiac might only travel 5-600 miles I drop the Pontiac oil out, and use it in the Toyota. So the Pontiac gets fresh oil (and filter) much more frequently than perhaps it might otherwise.

Just my 2 cents!!

Ian

[rohrt]

Originally Posted by Will

This is BS.

Any brand name oil is fine. Heck, the parts store brands are fine too. The important thing is to change it and the filter regularly and make sure the PCV is functioning properly.

Could be. Not the first time I heard people say stay away from Quaker state and Pennzoil. But that was a long time ago and I'm sure things have changed.

I tore into a lot of motors in the 80s and I saw a tone of them that were sludged up under the valve covers. I haven't seen any like that anymore. I would think that were some cheap oils back in the day that contributed to that.

[rohrt]

After reading about oil grades and additives for hours.

I feel pretty good about the Rotella stuff in my old cars and my daily driver. If we had emissions tests in my state I would be more concerned about the effects of the zink on the Catalytic converter.

I have read a few post that Rotella is dropping their zinc levels but haven't found info to back that up.

http://jalopnik.com/pat-goss-debunks...oil-1443647531
I liked this video with the Valvoline tech.
"The ZDDP is the best additive out their for oil
Best anti oxidant
Great corrosion inhibitor
Best anti wear additive they ever found"

[Will]

Originally Posted by rohrt

Could be. Not the first time I heard people say stay away from Quaker state and Pennzoil. But that was a long time ago and I'm sure things have changed.

I tore into a lot of motors in the 80s and I saw a tone of them that were sludged up under the valve covers. I haven't seen any like that anymore. I would think that were some cheap oils back in the day that contributed to that.

Because it was an old wives-tale/myth that got spread around and sounded good to some people.

Who knows, maybe back in the '30s and '40s there was something to it, but by the time the '60s and '70s rolled around it was just something to say. My dad never used anything but Pennzoil in his cars and he tended to keep them for a long time and never had any problems. That's where I got my Formula from. It had 80k on it when I bought it and I followed his advice and changed the oil every 3K miles.

Since there's no way to know what oil some old core engine had in it over the years, much less how that engine was cared for, it's impossible to blame the internal state of the engine on any particular brand of oil.

I've torn apart a lot of Pontiacs that were full of gunk and sludge too. Those engines got torn apart because they, and the cars they originally came in, were done. People hadn't taken care of them or they'd have still been running. Most of the engines I've taken apart as cores came out of big cars.

I don't tear down modern engines on any kind of regular basis because I don't care about modern engines, so can't say what the inside of some '97 Ford 302 from a trashed van that someone didn't take care of looks like. That said, oils *are* better now than they were in the past and I'm sure that helps engines stay cleaner.

Which is why I don't worry about the brand of oil I put in something like my Honda. All modern oils, even the off-brand ones, have to meet certain standards and those standards are much more stringent now than they were in the past for keeping engines clean and resisting sludge buildup.

If I was driving an old Pontiac or a car I actually cared about for my daily then I'd put more thought into it. I had an '06 WRX for 7 years that was my daily and I always put Rotella T 15-40 synthetic in it. I figured that since it was a turbo motor, a diesel oil (which is also certified for passenger car use) would be a good choice. I sold that car with 163k on the clock and it was still running but had blown a head gasket. Can't blame the head gasket on the oil, I don't think...

[Hedgehead]

Rotella 15-40 in my classics. Mobil 1 in my modern.

[SRR]

I'm in the synthetic camp. Autozone discontinued their store brand syn. (made by Valvoline, 3 bucks a qt) My 01 Marquis calls for 5W20 and I bought enough to do the next 5 changes. I also bought 5 Motorcraft oil filters from Walmart with a gift card I got for Christmas.
I run 15W40 in my 94 Chevy Diesel with the 2 quart STP filter. The 00 Camry 4 cylinder gets 10W30 store brand oil with STP filters since it had 71,000 miles and now with 262,000 stills runs great and is clean as a whistle inside. Just passed California's smog test with flying colors. I don't think it matters much what you run as long as you change it, NOT run low and use a decent oil filter. I recently bought an oil filter cutter from Summit and what they say about those orange oil filters is true. The Bosch filters are very well made.

[fyrffytr1]

Castrol High Mileage 5-30 in my 06 GMC, whatever Toyota uses in my wife's 13 Camry, whatever Ford uses in my wife's 14 Mustang and Valvoline racing 10-30 in my 67 GTO. Wix filters for the GMC and GTO.

[BB70]

In my hi mile 99 Caravan , I use 10-30 in the cold, 10-40 in the heat, usually Castrol or Wolfshead. I also use a mopar filter as it will dry start with any other filter on it, tried them all. No noise at all with the mopar filter.
IMHO, the sludge deal is from short tripping a vehicle, not the oil type.
John

[Hooter]

Wally World synthetic. It's cheap and I'm sure made by a name brand mfr.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by rohrt

I was told years ago like back in the late 80s that Quaker state and Penzoil were the worst oils out there and if I saw a motor that was coked up it was most likely running one of those oils.


I too used to use Valvoline and the inside of my motors have always been clean.

Dad used nothing but Valvoline and had a clogged rt oil gallery in his '72 Catalina (same one he sold me for $1 when I was 18). He changed his oil and filter every 4,000 miles. I used nothing but Quaker State and had ZERO coking in any of my engines.

[rohrt]

Sounds like most people are dumping oil in based mostly on personal preference.

Anyone picking oil based on research of formula or additives?

[poncho-mike]

I did.

In my earlier post, I said I ran Mobil 1 and Castrol Edge full synthetics in my newer cars. I ran diesel oil in my tow vehicles (except my 96 Suburban 2500 454).

I ran Castrol 10W-30 in winter months and HD30 in warmer months (most of the time) in my older performance Pontiac engines from about 1982 until 2006, when my 74 T/A ate a camshaft lobe after 15K miles. I trust my engine builder, as I used the same shop for my machining during that period.

I am sure I did everything right on my T/A, and I ran break in lube when I initially fired it up. I even ran the engine in on an engine stand made out of a 71 Firebird subframe. I pulled the top end and saw the camshaft/lifter had failed and there was evidence some of the other lobes were showing more wear than they should at 15K miles. When I called the cam manufacturer, they told me that I should be running an oil with high levels of ZDDP. After doing my research into oils, I switched to Rotella T for my vintage Pontiac V8s.

[David Jones]

I'm a member over on BITOG and visit regularly.
I'm a member on a Toyota (Highlander) and a Ford truck (F150) forum.
You can read and read and research and research oil until the cows come home and the bottom line is, if you use the correct grade oil and change it like recommended for your situation your car will run probably longer than you're going to want to drive it. Brand really doesn't matter as long as it meets the mfg's requirements. Filter? As long as it's changed as required, what brand probably doesn't matter there either.