[mwritter]

My '64 has factory AC and PS, and is the "late" setup with the single belt for WP/Crank/PS/Alt. I spent years gathering all of the correct brackets and pulleys so I know I'm good there. The alignment seems good to me.

The issue is a squealing belt I just can't seem to cure. I removed the oem-style dated belt thinking that might be the issue, no help. I've tried several different alternator pulleys trying to get more belt wrap without success. Even an extra-deep COPO Camaro alternator pulley did nothing (but drain my wallet). Part of the problem seems to be that the alternator strap adjustment really does nothing to tighten the belt - it just moves the alternator along the same plane, and doesn't increase the belt's contact with the alternator pulley. I've got the adjustment at the PS pump as tight as I'm comfortable with, and again, that doesn't improve belt contact at the alternator. If anything it makes it slightly worse the tighter the belt is adjusted.

I'm about out of ideas and contemplating going back to the dual-pulley setup that was on the car when I bought it, which would be a shame since it would be incorrect for a June built '64. Before I try that I was just curious if anyone had confronted this issue before. I'll get pics up later today if that would help. Thanks for the assistance!

[mwritter]

Pics of what I believe is the issue.

[John V.]

Matt, never had a '64 AC set-up, others here have it so should be able to offer better advice.

Here's what I can tell you. The '64 w/ AC did not use the early year twin belt set-up.

That was ONLY used for PS cars without AC.

The AC set-up did not change during the year. So if you got the car with a twin belt set-up, that was NOT factory.

The correct PS pulley for the '64 Tempest with AC was different from the '64 big car PS pulley, can't tell you why (and of course different from either of the non-AC PS pulleys, early or late).

The Tempest one should measure 6-21/32" dia. per the MPC. The big Pontiac one measured 7-5/8" dia. Can't tell how large yours is from the pic.

Looks like you don't have the AC belt on, so that isn't the issue.

Hard to tell from the pix, but do you have the correct balancer pulley? The front groove should be smaller dia. than the rear groove. I know you say you have the correct parts and I don't think the squeal would be result of incorrect parts anyway, just mentioning it in case you were unaware.

The belt tension is supposed to be set with the PS pump adjustment, so I think the alternator has to be locked down first when making the tension adjustment. A new belt is supposed to be tensioned about 50% more than a used belt.

The attached may help with some diagnosis ideas.

https://autoeducation101.wordpress.c...ling-belt-fix/

Might look perfectly aligned, but you might try shimming the alt with washers to see if the squealing changes.

[aceaceca]

I have the exact same problem. I wanted to switch to the dual belt 64 set up but you cannot because of air conditioning pulleys. I have just installed a similar alternator pulley to yours. It is a tad greater in diameter than the original. My problem was initially caused, I thought, after going to a 100 amp alternator. It takes substantial more h/p to turn the thing if it is pumping out a lot of amps. However, in looking at your belt, and mine, I see you have a vented belt. I have had problems with this type of belt before. All the air gaps are for cooling the belt but in return I believe we are giving up a lot of grip. I suggest, and I am going to do the same, trying a non air gap belt. Belts grip on the two side angles and if half is missing you have obviously given up grip power. There is small enough grip surface to use so we cannot give up any potential grip area.

[bill ryder]

I guess I am missing something never having an AC car. I do know the 1st design had 2 parallel belts driving the alt and PS. The 2nd design had 1 for each. Then going back to the AC drive illustration, it shows 1 belt for each component (64-67) and one belt for the AC. So I am missing where your AC has only 1 belt driving the alt and PS and 1 driving the AC as you have. Not in any of my MPC illustrations??? "Bill"!

[John V.]

Bill, I believe the '66-'67 AC set-up did change to a 3 groove crank pulley arrangement. Not so for '64-'65.

Speaking of '64 only, when you had factory AC, the crank pulley was still only 2 groove albeit with each groove having a different dia.

With AC, the smaller dia. front crank pulley groove drove a single belt to the AC compressor pulley, and the rear crank pulley groove drove a single belt that spun the single groove alt pulley and the single groove PS pulley and the alt and PS pulleys must line up.

Take a look at pg. 367 in the Resto Guide to see what I am describing.

I know the '66 MPC illustrates the correct '64 AC arrangement, maybe it was corrupted in the '67 MPC?

[Tom Vaught]

Looks to me like the later 64 cars all used 2 belts; One driving the W/P and the Alternator, one driving the W/P and the Power Steering.

The A/C Crank pulley was separate and located behind or in front of the 2 belt crank pulley. The A/C Belt does its own deal, the P/S does its own deal, and the P/S does its own deal (EVEN WITH A/C. The difference in the two systems is that the early system had the dual belts going around a Dual Alternator Pulley and a Dual Power Steering Pulley I believe.

The later cars had single shieve Alternator Pulleys and single shieve P/S Pulleys.

Tom V.

[aceaceca]

Mine is a 65 but has the exact same set up as is shown. He does not have the AC belt on but it goes in the front crank and front water pump pulleys that can be seen in his pics. It is fairly obvious that the belt contact patch on the alternator is miniscule. I would say 2 inches maximum. There is just no way this provides enough grip for the belt. As I stated above, switch to a regular belt and you will see a world of difference. Those stupid slotted belts did not even exist in the era.

[John V.]

Tom, early cars also all used 2 belts except for base content cars (neither PS nor AC).

You correctly point out that both belts spun the water pump in all set-ups (except the base content when only 1 belt was used).

But what you describe is only true of the late PS set-up without AC. The late PS without AC used the rear belt to drive the alt and the front belt to drive the PS.

The '64 crank pulley for use with AC did not consist of 2 individual pulleys. It was still a 2 groove pulley as was the crank pulley used without AC. The difference between the 2 was the AC pulley had 2 different groove diameters.

With AC, and for the entire '64 model year, the front groove spun the AC compressor and the water pump.

The rear groove spun the water pump, alt, and PS pump.

The single groove alt pulley lined up with the single groove PS pump pulley.

Matt's pix show the correct set-up, only thing I'm not sure of is whether the dia. of his single groove PS pump pulley is the correct dia. for the Tempest PS with AC application.

What you are describing for AC cars came in later years when AC cars with PS used 3 separate V belts.

That was not used in '64 for any application, big car or Tempest.

[John V.]

aceaceca, I agree with you except that Matt said he originally was using an OEM style belt which I assume he meant a correct repro. It squealed.

He then switched it out, I assume for the one seen in the pix.

He may have a combination of issues and agree that an original style belt might help his cause.

I would try to play with the alt to see if a change in alignment makes any difference.

If he had a spare alt that he could sub in, that would be another way to see if he can pinpoint which pulley is the culprit.

Just reaching for ideas.

[Tom Vaught]

Thanks John, FEAD stuff was always a mystery to me as the FEAD Guy at Pontiac seemed to change stuff every year in some way.

Tom V.

[remy30006]

I'm in he process of trying to complete this set up on a restoration. its a 64 lemans 326 with ac and power steering. the crank pulley is there and the power steering pump and pulley is there but the water pump pulley and alternator brackets are missing. Are the parts unique to the ac car?

[War eagle]

[QUOTE=mwritter;5617582]My '64 has factory AC and PS, and is the "late" setup with the single belt for WP/Crank/PS/Alt. I spent years gathering all of the correct brackets and pulleys so I know I'm good there. The alignment seems good to me.

The issue is a squealing belt I just can't seem to cure. I removed the oem-style dated belt thinking that might be the issue, no help. I've tried several different alternator pulleys trying to get more belt wrap without success. Even an extra-deep COPO Camaro alternator pulley did nothing (but drain my wallet). Part of the problem seems to be that the alternator strap adjustment really does nothing to tighten the belt - it just moves the alternator along the same plane, and doesn't increase the belt's contact with the alternator pulley. I've got the adjustment at the PS pump as tight as I'm comfortable with, and again, that doesn't improve belt contact at the alternator. If anything it makes it slightly worse the tighter the belt is adjusted.


Mwritter
I have the alternator fully up on the strap to avoid the hot terminal and valve cover. Then belt adjustment is made using the power steering pump/bracket.
The old mechanics would start the engine and use a bar of soap to coat the belt......if it stops the squeal or slipping with a new belt, it usually can be traced to a worn pulley allowing the belt to ride deep and lay on the bottom of the groove. Check the crank pulley for wear.

[Bill Hanlon]

Determining when it squeals may help with the diagnosis.

If it only squeals when the steering wheel is turned, it is slipping on the PS pump or crankshaft pulley.

If it only squeals under high electrical demand it is likely slipping on the alternator pulley. You could even verify this by electrically disconnecting the alternator.

If it squeals under both of the conditions above, but doesn't squeal while both conditions are NOT occurring, it is likely slipping on the crank pulley.

If it squeals before the thermostat opens, but not afterwards, I guess that the additional load on the water pump pushing against the closed thermostat could be causing a slip on the water pump pulley. (This is a WAG). Could also indicate belt problems that go away as the belt warms up.

[mwritter]

I've only got access on my phone for the time being, but I just wanted to say thanks for all of the great info that's been posted so far.

[bill ryder]

You should NOT have to move the alt to the end of the strap to avoid the 12V lug to valve cover interference. The alt is clocked wrong. 2 wire plug should be at 3 o'clock, pointing to the dr. fender, not 12 o'clock pointing up..,.. "Bill"!

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by bill ryder

You should NOT have to move the alt to the end of the strap to avoid the 12V lug to valve cover interference. The alt is clocked wrong. 2 wire plug should be at 3 o'clock, pointing to the dr. fender, not 12 o'clock pointing up..,.. "Bill"!

X2

Tom V.

[War eagle]

The clocking of the 64 alts has been chewed on here in the past.....John V.?

[John V.]

W.E., agreed it has. I don't know for sure what is correct.

This thread has some useful info but I haven't figured out what is correct for '64 or '65 for clocking.

Note that I speculated that the '65 alt may have been clocked differently from '64, see post 59. But it was speculation, never proved one way or the other.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=778607

[bill ryder]

If anyone has available the pictures of the 8006 mile survivor maroon 64 GTO, take a look at the alt. Shows 3 o'clock, or to the dr. fender. "Bill"!