[J.C.you]

Originally Posted by Aaron Quinton

I agree 100%, anyone can run a hemi. It takes talent to make a Pontiac competitive.

You need as much port area as you can get on a Pontiac bore center with as little shrouding as possible to be competitive. I'd look for as much port area as possible. A dry head should help with deck stiffness incase you want to turn up the cylinder pressure. I'd look at a billet WARP 6, billet KRE hemi, or canted valve Visner. These are the only readily available billet heads I am aware of that will keep your shrouding in hand. The selection of any of these three likely comes down to a proven overhead system.

There is no reason you can't compete at the front with similar head area to the hemis with the 2.25 in intake valve limit.

And well done on cracking the 4.0's and the Indy appearance!

Aaron, I would throw Eric's billet Vs in with those picks with a 2.25 valve and big enough bore to support it...actually it may be the best (reliable, leave the pushrod in the port) alternative because of pushrod angles versus the canted/hemi heads. Of course, if one moved the lifter bores around and had a special camshaft done the billet canted/hemi would be the way to go.

[mgarblik]

I think there are some options that could get you closer than the E-Heads you are running. The E-heads have proven to be way better than anyone including Edelbrock ever imagined. The stiffness of a billet head just can't be overstated. Especially with the aluminum block, you need a stiff head to keep the thin sleeves as straight as possible, not to mention the head gaskets in the engine. Our Ram Air V heads are really stiff and heavy. Not sure what the weight issue might do to you. We have massive port volume which may be good for your fuel. Great for Nitro, not sure how important for alcohol. Our valvetrain is rock solid. Couple of issues with our heads. The valve arrangement and spark plug placement makes tuning extra difficult. If ingesting liquid fuel, cylinders 5,6,7,8 may have the plug submerged in liquid. That has been a tough deal for us. Also, the ultimate intake flow may not be enough for your deal. Our heads are super thick and strong where they need to be. This has limited our max flow at our valve lift to around 450 CFM. You have to remember, the nitro has plenty of O2 in it and it's not an issue for us. Keeping the engine in one piece is. We hold all the software and design, so PM Eric or call and we will help if we can. One other head that has not been mentioned is the new billet head Steve Dale will be running next year. They run blown alcohol so it may be closer to a bolt-on design that you can use. I haven't seen one in person but it has inline valves, I think and looks like a Pontiac head, rather than a hemi. Just don't know enough about the KRE Hemi as I don't even know if anything has gone down the track with these heads. The warp 6 heads are out there in circulation, but under the best possible scenario, have run about .10-.15 better than you in a door car. Bottom line, there are much better choices than what you are running, including several cast aluminum heads like the Tiger. I think they even make them in solid form. That would be an easy conversion and would certainly pick the car up. You have allot of choices to keep the car a real Pontiac. In your post, you seem to be committed to staying with Pontiac power. It's the way cool way, certainly not the easiest.

[BrandX]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

I heard through the grapevine that he is getting a set of Visner's.

wonder if the grapevine is paying for them??

[alloy indian]

Justin I remember Robert C. offered you a set of fully ported Tiger heads free of charge after Indy. This as stated above would be an easy swap so maybe take them up on it. You could always look into other choices later and not have much invested in the swap to Tigers for the time being. Just a thought.

[RAMAIR RICK]

Hello Justin, food for thought.
If you make a simple wish/hit list of what you are looking for out of a set of cylinder heads for your Vehicle, that would greatly help everyone that CAN support your engine program with a set of heads by knowing what you need. Example, the construction of the head?, the valve train architectural layout?, Performance CFM flow?, Conventional Pontiac Valve Cover?, exhaust port layout?, donated or support or free?. These items will help this wonderful Pontiac community do what it can for you, but you need to tell them what YOU and YOUR Bad A$$ Poncho needs.

[dci]

Justin,
The RA5 platform is all you!!!! You have other choices available, but none of them offer that extra something you need and are looking for. I am offering to help you and discuss possible options if you are wanting to stay traditional Pontiac. My cylinder heads are well thought out and not a copy of anything else except the traditional Pontiac plat form. They can offer as much CSA as you could possibly want or need. Call me let's talk!!!! If you don't like what you hear, no hard feelings !!!!!

[Aaron Quinton]

Thanks, I was not aware of billet V's. I'd want to look at valve placement to ensure shrouding wasn't an issue. There are a lot of good options that can keep Chief running Pontiac power.

Originally Posted by J.C.you

Aaron, I would throw Eric's billet Vs in with those picks with a 2.25 valve and big enough bore to support it...actually it may be the best (reliable, leave the pushrod in the port) alternative because of pushrod angles versus the canted/hemi heads. Of course, if one moved the lifter bores around and had a special camshaft done the billet canted/hemi would be the way to go.

[BrandX]

wellllll


nhra is going to be tough to be competitive with pontiac. 37lbs of boost max. m1 fuel only. 2650 weight. 88mm turbos. 2.4 valve max. 3 speed

i have been 6.3 at 226 mph within the rules a few times.

i believe one of two more sessions and i would be able to run 6.1-6.2


sooooooo lets discuss. i'm
guessing the hemi head would run the best, but lose some
of the cool factor

[Elarson]

Originally Posted by Aaron Quinton

Thanks, I was not aware of billet V's. I'd want to look at valve placement to ensure shrouding wasn't an issue. There are a lot of good options that can keep Chief running Pontiac power.

Here's a picture of our heads on engine. Also look for (4) hoses feeding oil into engine.

Eric

[Elarson]

Originally Posted by BrandX

wellllll


nhra is going to be tough to be competitive with pontiac. 37lbs of boost max. m1 fuel only. 2650 weight. 88mm turbos. 2.4 valve max. 3 speed

i have been 6.3 at 226 mph within the rules a few times.

i believe one of two more sessions and i would be able to run 6.1-6.2


sooooooo lets discuss. i'm
guessing the hemi head would run the best, but lose some
of the cool factor

Main things I'd advocate:

billet with no water jackets to be stiffer and seal better
RA 5 valve order, to separate the exhaust ports

Boss Bird heads have big chambers (147 cc) which would be a disadvantage.

Steve Dale/Dave Wilcox heads might be a great choice. Much smaller chambers (80-ish cc?), RA5 valve order but with a conventional intake ports. 520 cfm. I bumped that thread back up (H&M Airflow Dynamics)
.

Eric

[smokey 1978]

hemi heads what!!!

[dci]

Just some questions I would want answered before I made a commitment.


Whats the cost comparison between billet and high grade aluminum cnc castings if one gets damaged beyond repair?

Is external appearance important?

How quickly can the heads be had if one is damaged beyond repair?

Are valve train pieces readily available without waiting?

Is there a strength difference between a high grade solid casting compared to billet?

Is there an intake readily available ?

Will the company that provides the heads be around if a replacement is needed?

All things that absolutely must be there when racing professionally especially if sponsors are involved.

[Elarson]

Originally Posted by dci

Just some questions I would want answered before I made a commitment.


Whats the cost comparison between billet and high grade aluminum cnc castings if one gets damaged beyond repair?

Is external appearance important?

How quickly can the heads be had if one is damaged beyond repair?

Are valve train pieces readily available without waiting?

Is there a strength difference between a high grade solid casting compared to billet?

Is there an intake readily available ?

Will the company that provides the heads be around if a replacement is needed?

All things that absolutely must be there when racing professionally especially if sponsors are involved.

Don: apologies if you've already covered this in another thread. Can you supply your heads cast solid?

Eric

[dci]

Eric, no problem. Yes my heads can be had solid. Although I don't really think that would be necessary because I made my deck surface nominally 1" thick. It might be nice to have water in them for street racing and cooling down between rounds. I think If Justin is not having head gasket failures with the Eheads. I definitely don't think he will with my heads especially since they don't have the Siamese exhaust ports.

[Aaron Quinton]

Man I thought the valve limit was 2.25 in. A 2.4 in intake will make the valve shrouding even more important.

Originally Posted by BrandX

wellllll


nhra is going to be tough to be competitive with pontiac. 37lbs of boost max. m1 fuel only. 2650 weight. 88mm turbos. 2.4 valve max. 3 speed

i have been 6.3 at 226 mph within the rules a few times.

i believe one of two more sessions and i would be able to run 6.1-6.2


sooooooo lets discuss. i'm
guessing the hemi head would run the best, but lose some
of the cool factor

[Robert C.]

Justin,

Frank and I still offer a set of solid Tiger Heads that will flow 510 CFM.

Please give us another call when you can.

How did the Aluminum IA II block run?

Bob C.

[J.C.you]

A stable valve train at 9k+ would be a major consideration. How high are you spinning the motor?

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by BrandX

wonder if the grapevine is paying for them??

That's what I heard maybe they are wrong.

I'd like to help, you saw what I have. Text or call and I'll give you a smoking deal.

Pontiac TTF

[Matt Meaney]

I imagine the conservative bore of 4.25" gives more sealing area for the copper head gaskets.

my question is: would changing to the ring type seal that Robert C. offers, allow a bigger bore to help unshroud the valve and still maintain reliability?
or, is there just not enough bore space available to make a difference?

seals: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...=dry+deck+seal

[65nss4spdGTO]

Originally Posted by Aaron Quinton

I agree 100%, anyone can run a hemi. It takes talent to make a Pontiac competitive.

There is no reason you can't compete at the front with similar head area to the hemis with the 2.25 in intake valve limit.

I 100% disagree.

Take a close at NHRA Alcohol Funny Car. One of the highest levels of Sportsman Racing, a select few are most always at the top. Cubic dollars spent trying to gain a HP advantage.

http://www.draglist.com/draglist/cat...EAR%2CMPH+DESC

There is a reason they run Hemis.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420