[71 T/A]

How many 64 or 65 GTO tripower, auto trans, a/c convertibles do you all estimate were built? Probably 200-300 each year? Less? That's what I'm looking for and if anyone has one or knows where one's at, please let me know!

[Tom Vaught]

I have seen one REAL 1964 tripower, auto trans, a/c convertible in 53 years.

Looking forward to seeing a vehicle number produced from some of the experts.

Tom V.

[John V.]

I don't think anybody can know for sure (unless PHS wants to comb thru the records) but here is my estimate based on some published data.

The great majority of Tripower '64/'65 GTOs were equipped with manual trans.

I don't have a '64 breakdown, but assuming '64 was about the same as '65, more than 90% of all Tripowers were man trans.

That leaves 1,456 with auto trans in '65 and about 600 in '64.

The Convertible body style accounted for about 20% of all '64 GTOs and 15% of all '65 GTOs.

I would guess that a lower percentage of Convertibles got the Tripower than the other 2 Body Styles, but I would also guess a higher percentage of Convertibles got the auto trans than the other 2 Body Styles.

So perhaps those 2 variables balanced out.

So I figure about 120 auto trans '64 Convertibles and 218 auto trans '65 Convertibles, all with Tripower.

A/C was a fairly rare option, more common in an expensive Bonneville than in a low priced Tempest in '64/'65. A/C became increasingly more common in cars thru the balance of the '60s and into the '70s.

But in '64/'65, I would guess something like 10%-15% overall for the Tempest. With the GTO option, perhaps somewhat less as the performance enthusiast declined power robbing accessories. The auto trans Convertible attracted a generally less performance oriented buyer, so perhaps a somewhat higher percentage ordered A/C in a GTO Convertible than for the other Body Styles. But adding A/C to a Tripower with Auto Trans was pushing the price envelope so I still doubt much more than 10% were so equipped.

That would mean about 12-20 for '64 and 22-36 for '65.

A LOT of assumptions have gone into this estimate. Others may have a somewhat different guess.

But they are surely a pretty rare combination.

[71 T/A]

Can't argue with that logic. Thanks John V.

[64gtoj]

Hi guys, I own a 64 GTO convertible tri-power 4 speed with A/C. I've owned this car since 1986. I really haven't seen another one.

[Tom Vaught]

A/C and M/T more common for sure vs the A/C, AUTO, Tri-Power, Vert.

Tom V.

[Keith Seymore]

I would think convertible with A/C is the combo breaker in the early 1960's timeframe.

Can't be many of those in any vehicle platform.

K

[War eagle]

Agree but is this the rarest? Would a 4sp tempest convert with A/C and 6 cyl trump the GTO vert?

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by War eagle

Agree but is this the rarest? Would a 4sp tempest convert with A/C and 6 cyl trump the GTO vert?

Maybe not, I know of at least 3 "Snowbirds" that used the A/C in Florida prior to the return to Michigan and "Top Down" weather that drove 6 cyl 4sp tempest convert with A/C that were serviced at my Uncle's Pontiac Dealership. They were Farmers in the area and "cheap" on the vehicle/engine/driveline but liked the convertible (Fresh Air) and A/C (hot in Florida) driving. "Man" drove the car most of the time too.
Had to be more of them out there vs just my uncle's dealership but he sold a lot of cars to older long time customers and traveling to Florida was common for them in the winters.

Tom V.

[War eagle]

Here`s some stat`s: (From Old Ride)

6644 GTO convert
17,559 Lemans converts
7987 Tempest custom converts

This totals 32,190 verts. That's a lot of drop tops to be sure!! First year style besides!

Tom. Knowing of 3, 4sp 6yl converts alone is amazing even without A/C! Cool.

[geeteeohguy]

Originally Posted by John V.

I don't think anybody can know for sure (unless PHS wants to comb thru the records) but here is my estimate based on some published data.

The great majority of Tripower '64/'65 GTOs were equipped with manual trans.

I don't have a '64 breakdown, but assuming '64 was about the same as '65, more than 90% of all Tripowers were man trans.

That leaves 1,456 with auto trans in '65 and about 600 in '64.

The Convertible body style accounted for about 20% of all '64 GTOs and 15% of all '65 GTOs.

I would guess that a lower percentage of Convertibles got the Tripower than the other 2 Body Styles, but I would also guess a higher percentage of Convertibles got the auto trans than the other 2 Body Styles.

So perhaps those 2 variables balanced out.

So I figure about 120 auto trans '64 Convertibles and 218 auto trans '65 Convertibles, all with Tripower.

A/C was a fairly rare option, more common in an expensive Bonneville than in a low priced Tempest in '64/'65. A/C became increasingly more common in cars thru the balance of the '60s and into the '70s.

But in '64/'65, I would guess something like 10%-15% overall for the Tempest. With the GTO option, perhaps somewhat less as the performance enthusiast declined power robbing accessories. The auto trans Convertible attracted a generally less performance oriented buyer, so perhaps a somewhat higher percentage ordered A/C in a GTO Convertible than for the other Body Styles. But adding A/C to a Tripower with Auto Trans was pushing the price envelope so I still doubt much more than 10% were so equipped.

That would mean about 12-20 for '64 and 22-36 for '65.

A LOT of assumptions have gone into this estimate. Others may have a somewhat different guess.

But they are surely a pretty rare combination.

This is a great post and likely about as good as it's gonna get. I agree with the logic and the figures are probably very close indeed. Thanks, John!

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by War eagle

Here`s some stat`s: (From Old Ride)

6644 GTO convert
17,559 Lemans converts
7987 Tempest custom converts

This totals 32,190 verts. That's a lot of drop tops to be sure!! First year style besides!

Tom. Knowing of 3, 4sp 6yl converts alone is amazing even without A/C! Cool.

The people have all past on by now, this was in the mid 1070s so all three Verts may be long gone to the crusher.
Most people today would not care about a 6 cylinder tempest vert. Half the people today can't drive a stick.

Tom V.

I saw a lot of cool cars at that dealership when I worked there for my uncle. He had one of the 1 of 54 "Drag/Track Pack" 442s.
Years later, In Florida I met a guy who had two more of the 54 "Drag/Track Pack" 442s. My uncle "gave" that car away vs what the guy in Florida said the cars were worth. They also made some Dealer Installed kits but not the same as the true 54 Race Cars.

[John V.]

I've not seen a breakdown of base 6 cyl vs. V8 for the '64 Tempest. I recall seeing those figures for the Firebird just a few years later. The percentage of 6 cyl builds was pretty low in '67.

But according to the late year '64 Engine Production log that has been posted here in the recent past, more than 40% of '64 Tempests seem to have been equipped with the 6 cyl.

And of those that got the 6 cyl, it looks like more than 85% were optioned with the auto trans.

So applying similar logic as I used to figure the no. of GTOs with Tripower, auto, and A/C:

7987 '64 Tempest Customs in the convert body style (note, the convertible body style not offered in the Tempest Model Series in '64).

3200 equipped with 6 cyl.

480 equipped with manual trans.

Now your guess is as good as mine as to how many got the 4 spd and how many got the base 3 spd on the column.

The Tempest Custom had a Bench Seat as standard. There was a Special Equipment option to get Buckets in the Tempest Custom but the ordering restrictions seemed to not allow this in the convertible, forcing you to upgrade to the Lemans if you wanted a Bucket Seat convertible.

Either way, call that very rare or nonexistent.

The 4 spd could be had in a Bench Seat Tempest in '64 but they seem to be very rare, I believe because the floor shift would negate the utility of the bench seat for a 3rd front seat occupant.

So my guess, only 10% of the man trans builds were optioned with 4 spd. Or about 48 such builds.

Figuring the same 10-15% also got A/C, that says 5-8 '64 Tempest Custom convertibles were built with the 6 cyl, 4 spd, and A/C.

Tom remembers 3 of them being serviced at one dealership.

That would suggest my estimate is way off.

Perhaps 75% got the 6 cyl. And perhaps the man trans was more common in the convertible than in the sedans, so let's say 25% were man trans.

And perhaps 80% chose the floor shifted 4 spd over the column shifted 3 spd despite the Bench Seat.

And maybe 25% also chose A/C.

Redoing the math, I get 300 '64 Tempest Custom convertibles with the 6 cyl, 4 spd, and A/C.

Was this combo rarer than a '64 GTO with Tripower, auto, and A/C?

Given the popularity of the 6 cyl, I suspect the '64 Tempest Custom convertible with the 4 bbl 326, 4 spd, and A/C would be far rarer as very few ordered the 4 bbl 326 compared to the 2 bbl 326 (roughly 9:1).

Like I said, PHS could comb thru the records to determine for sure. But that isn't going to happen.

So it is just guess work.

I happen to like "strength in nos." so for me, I'd rather that my '64 GTO be considered 1 of thousands of surviving '64 Tempests equipped in any fashion.

Others like to think of their '64 as 1 of 1.

And I have always said to them that if you want to differentiate far enough, every '64 was 1 of 1 when built.

With 5 Body Styles among 3 separate Model Series, 15 standard paint colors plus special paint order builds, a lengthy list of interior color options (and the rare '64 GTO with a special order Bench Seat interior), 3 engine choices (exclusive of the 2 GTO engine choices), 3 trans choices, 4 different hub cap and wheel cover choices, plus dozens of other individual options, and 4 final assembly plants, the bigger challenge would be to find two '64 Tempests that were for all intents and purposes identical.

I don't think it can be done. Show me the PHS docs for two identical builds and I will ask you to tell me if one got the Delco Horn Relay and the other got the alternate Littelfuse Horn Relay.

PMD produced well over 200,000 '64 A body builds. With statistical analysis using vehicle attrition rates for cars built in the mid '60s you can determine that very few remain.

If I recall, for cars built in 1964, half of them would have been scrapped by 1980 and about 10% surviving thru 1990 as scrappage rates accelerate with vehicle age. GTO survival would be higher due to collectability. How many now remain?

I suspect a 4 spd 4 bbl 326 Tempest or Tempest Custom Safari Wagon regardless of A/C would be rarer than any convertible combo.

[Tom Vaught]

Ford Built 7 Manual Trans Vans for a High Volume Ford Dealer in California, SEVEN TOTAL built for the model year.
Ford wanted to make the Dealer happy, so they did it. DSO. Dealer Special Order.

Now my uncle had some pull with a Factory Guy, as I have mentioned to John V in the past.
Possible that the 3 cars he got were more of a favor deal vs NORMAL production.
So maybe John's original numbers may be closer to reality vs 300 vehicles. Say less than 50 vehicles, vs 300 Vehicles.
Rare optioned vehicle no matter what.

Tom V.

[War eagle]

The other interesting thing is that Tempest, as did other 1964-65 Gm "A" bodies, always received the Muncie 4sp. This was fairly high priced back in the day and one would have thought along the same lines as Ford and supplied a lesser tranny behind their 6cyl. Albeit Ford and their Dagenham 4sp was a Dealers nightmare. Many a Falcon and Comet with 6cyl were so equipt and recalling the local Ford Service Manager`s rant, "Damn Dagen thing". It would be a few years later that Saginaw developed a 4sp found in Chevelles etc usually behind a 2 barrel small block. A std Tempest 3sp would have been the cheap route but it sounds like it must have been rare as well in the vert.