[Jack P.]

I think I got the incorrect set up.
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...1&d=1513883902
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...1&d=1513883902
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...1&d=1513883902

[tempest1964]

Yup....

[geeteeohguy]

I agree that the car was a total score, even if it turns out to be a LeMans or Tempest. Very solid car with tons of potential with a little work done to it. Out where I am, you couldn't PAINT the thing for 15k these days. Please keep us posted......beautiful looking car.

[Jack P.]

Thanks all. I do feel I did good even if it turns out to not be a GTO. I am pretty sure it is but I will wait till the PHS comes back. If it did not have the 5N I still would have bought it. It will make a nice street car. Has anyone had Legendary make seat covers in cloth instead of vinyl? That would be nice, not sure if it would look chezzy or not. Got to fix those wrong seats. Still looking for the answer, has a car with 5N ever turned out to not be a GTO? And someone asked, yes it does have a antenna hole in the fender, the antenna is in the trunk.

[Old Goat Racer]

Originally Posted by Jack P.

Thanks all. I do feel I did good even if it turns out to not be a GTO. I am pretty sure it is but I will wait till the PHS comes back. If it did not have the 5N I still would have bought it. It will make a nice street car. Has anyone had Legendary make seat covers in cloth instead of vinyl? That would be nice, not sure if it would look chezzy or not. Got to fix those wrong seats. Still looking for the answer, has a car with 5N ever turned out to not be a GTO? And someone asked, yes it does have a antenna hole in the fender, the antenna is in the trunk.

Sorry, I couldn't see the hole. Thought it mite be a radio delete car?

WELL BOUGHT !

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Jack P.

Still looking for the answer, has a car with 5N ever turned out to not be a GTO?

I guarantee mistakes happen but I have never seen an unmolested factory built car with a 5N that was not a GTO (assuming no trickery out in the field like VIN swaps, cowl tag swaps, body swaps, wrong VIN requested, etc).

I have seen it go the other way, though (no 5N where there should be and it turns out to be a GTO).

K

[olde-goat]

FWIW, I am passing this on from personal experience. For me the answer is no, as that having 5N does not automatically guarantee a GTO. There was a long discussion about this topic number of years ago, but after doing a search I couldn't locate. A number of years ago I bought a 65 GTO, 2dr HT 4 speed car. Trim tag indicated Pontiac build, 5N vehicle. The owner was honest enough to tell me that he had trouble verifying that the car was a true GTO. Back in the day the car could have qualified for what is now known as a barn find. Owner had this car for many years, and just was to the point in his life that he decided not to restore the vehicle. I already had two other 65's and was just interested in buying the car only to add to the collection. I told him as long as the car was clean, not stolen etc etc, that I would buy it. The price was at that time very reasonable and I really didn't care if it was a true GTO. I had the serial number checked etc and verified all was OK. Once the transaction was complete I applied for PHS. I got a call from PHS telling me that they were going to return my money as they could not verify that the car was a GTO, even though the plate indicated 5N. According to PHS apparently there are a number of 'blocks' of micro fiche that are missing and verification of these vehicles in those 'blocks' is next to impossible. During the discussions on this forum I heard from other members that were in the same position that I was. As I said earlier this was not a game changer for me, I just wanted the car. I later sold the car and also told the next buyer abut the PHS verification problem. Sorry for the long story, but getting PHS is still the best route to take to verify.

[Tom Vaught]

My vehicle sitting in the garage right now does not have the 5N on the Data Plate. KC Built Vehicle.
It should have it but does not.
John V has gone thru all of the paperwork and has confirmed the KC Built vehicle should have the 5N on the data plate. PHS also confirms that the vehicle should have a 5N. Sometimes the 64 KC cars info does NOT line up well with the PHS sent out information. (1964 KC Build deal mostly). But John V has the info down rock solid. So if the car is a Pontiac Built car that has the 5N then paperwork should match very closely. But like Keith S posted, mistakes did happen.

Tom V.

I have no desire to ever sell my car (Tri-power, 4 speed, convertible) and it will stay with my children at some point.

[War eagle]

Without the PHS it is hard to sanctify the car but I noticed a couple of things in the 1st post, 1st pic of the cowl tag. The rivets look ok but lack the sealer (putty) that was smeared into the rivet hole as required and shown in the 64 Pontiac Product Guide. This alone doesn`t mean anything like rivets replaced only that something has occurred there. The second thing looking at the cowl tag, you will notice it is bulging like a muffin away from the cowl. That is indication that a lite blast of sand or media has drawn, reverse stretched and bulged the tag. From experience never ever blast at or near the tag or it will look like the one pictured. So that is probably what happened to the missing rivet sealer. The sealer was important to keep water from entering the engine bay and electrical components. The design of the rivet is not a closed end and the lower windshield area is very high pressure while driving. The sealer is easily replaced but the data plate is damaged forever and will never lay flat. This probably tells us little BUT at one time on some vehicle, the tag was blasted.

[Chief of the 60's]

Sanctify?!?! LOL

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by War eagle

Without the PHS it is hard to sanctify the car but I noticed a couple of things in the 1st post, 1st pic of the cowl tag. The rivets look ok but lack the sealer (putty) that was smeared into the rivet hole as required and shown in the 64 Pontiac Product Guide. This alone doesn`t mean anything like rivets replaced only that something has occurred there.

My car does not have putty in the rivets.

September of '64 built Pontiac Michigan vehicle.

I figured it was part of a "dum dum" delete, or someone was being lazy and missed it.

K

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

"dum dum" delete

K

LMAO! Love it! That is funny right there.

When and why did the Corvette mentality ever enter the muscle car world. It is a damn shame that the GTO, an iconic car that started the muscle car genre and had the snot pounded out of it at dragstrips across this great country, has been reduced to a foo-foo car for people in polo shirts and Titleist hats. There ought to be a law.

[SONIC 4 U]

I have had he great opportunity to build some of the nicest and coolest cars GM ever created along with many others in the hobby and you will rarely ever see me in a “polo” shirt. You ever been to the pure stock drags?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jack P.]

Originally Posted by War eagle

Without the PHS it is hard to sanctify the car but I noticed a couple of things in the 1st post, 1st pic of the cowl tag. The rivets look ok but lack the sealer (putty) that was smeared into the rivet hole as required and shown in the 64 Pontiac Product Guide. This alone doesn`t mean anything like rivets replaced only that something has occurred there. The second thing looking at the cowl tag, you will notice it is bulging like a muffin away from the cowl. That is indication that a lite blast of sand or media has drawn, reverse stretched and bulged the tag. From experience never ever blast at or near the tag or it will look like the one pictured. So that is probably what happened to the missing rivet sealer. The sealer was important to keep water from entering the engine bay and electrical components. The design of the rivet is not a closed end and the lower windshield area is very high pressure while driving. The sealer is easily replaced but the data plate is damaged forever and will never lay flat. This probably tells us little BUT at one time on some vehicle, the tag was blasted.

Well your right, I guess I did not mention when the last owner had the car painted the body shop did sand blast the entire car, engine compartment and the bottom as well.
I also stopped wearing polo shirts when I got my first GTO. lol.

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by SONIC 4 U

You ever been to the pure stock drags?

I've been to a lot of tracks and ran at least once at every east coast NHRA Reunion but I can't say I've ever heard of that event.

But, if you are out there grabbing gears and not concerned about what time of day your bumper bolts were made, you are my kind of muscle car owner. People that want a foo-foo car should focus their efforts on building a nice Bonneville to tow a GTO to a track.

[rexus31]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

But, if you are out there grabbing gears and not concerned about what time of day your bumper bolts were made, you are my kind of muscle car owner. People that want a foo-foo car should focus their efforts on building a nice Bonneville to tow a GTO to a track.

There are those concerned about both.
http://www.psmcdr.com

[War eagle]

Keith sometime with the lites out and in the GTO`s lair, take a flashlite and shine it at the rivets. Now look into the wiper rod well and you will see the lite. Notice the proximity of the wiper motor and regulator wires just below the tag of the engine side.
While at chevy I started in new car prep and everything between until I went to the parts counter but somethings the line builders even gave us more dum dum than we could comprehend. We had a string of sold vehicles that had the empty 1/2 pint accessory #BOO-ZZ-E stashed in doors and even under seats, much like the highly prized build sheet. The rattles and "something moving in the door" on acceleration and braking was a common complaint. This is why you should never have the dum dum delete. ALWAYS have the accessory #BOO-ZZ-E delete!

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

"dum dum" delete

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

LMAO! Love it! That is funny right there.

Originally Posted by War eagle

Keith sometime with the lites out and in the GTO`s lair, take a flashlite and shine it at the rivets. Now look into the wiper rod well and you will see the lite. Notice the proximity of the wiper motor and regulator wires just below the tag of the engine side.
While at chevy I started in new car prep and everything between until I went to the parts counter but somethings the line builders even gave us more dum dum than we could comprehend. We had a string of sold vehicles that had the empty 1/2 pint accessory #BOO-ZZ-E stashed in doors and even under seats, much like the highly prized build sheet. The rattles and "something moving in the door" on acceleration and braking was a common complaint. This is why you should never have the dum dum delete. ALWAYS have the accessory #BOO-ZZ-E delete!

Mr Wangers had a few tricks up his sleeve when it came to making these cars lighter.

K

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

But, if you are out there grabbing gears and not concerned about what time of day your bumper bolts were made, you are my kind of muscle car owner. People that want a foo-foo car should focus their efforts on building a nice Bonneville to tow a GTO to a track.

...I hope a Grand Prix is ok...

K

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

...I hope a Grand Prix is ok...

K

Now that's cool!