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Non Pontiac Motors in Pontiacs includes factory 403,305,350 Chevy, Buick V6, Also Pontiac Motors in non-Pontiacs! |
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#1
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301 out ??? in
My first post so a little background. I'm from Illinois and am 69 years old and have been playing around with cars since the mid 60s Started with a 59 Ford then a 55 Chevy and 68 Camaro. From there til I was 50 it was all Mopars and one Buick Skylark,finally three late model Mustangs all with the 3.7 liter v8. Now I've got a 79 Firebird Esprit, even though I have zero experance with Pontiacs it's great bodystyle with the lackluster 301 two barrel. In fact I believe it has a vacuum leak. I could get a headgasket replacement but from what I've read it seems the casting is so light that the odds of finding a good used head seems unlikely. The car is just to cruise so performance is not the reason for considering a swap. Mostly it's cost since I have to pay someone to do the work because I'm old, fat and arthritic. So I'm thinking that a Pontiac v8 326 and up is pretty much a bolt in. Course $500 and up for a engine that was running when removed 10 years ago seems a bit pricey to me. I know that the auto T/As like mine were available with the Olds 403 in 79 to 81, so what besides motor mounts and exhaust needs to be done for this swap? Next has anybody here swapped a Buick v8 into a Firebird, I'm actually familiar with the Buick because of my Skylark? It seems that Olds and Buick are a lot more common around here than Pontiacs which is what I'd really like to find, hopefully something still in a car so I could hear and see it running. Any help would be appreciated.
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#2
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I'm not sure the 326 will accept the Firebird motor mounts
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#3
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Welcome to the PY forum !
A '70-up Pontiac V8 is the easiest swap. Can use the 301 mounts. I prefer to see only Pontiac engines in '81 & older Pontiacs. We're about the same age, but I started & stayed with Pontiac power. So, I'm a genuine old school Pontiac freak, and don't plan to change. Opinions differ. |
#4
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I agree that a 70-79 Pontiac V8 will be the easiest swap (a 67-69 Firebird 326, 350 or 400 will work just as easy) I would not let a good running 65-69 326, 389, 400, or 428 get away because it would need a couple of cheap adaptor plates to fit your chassis.
But remember to get as many accessory brackets as possible with any doner engine as your 301 brackets will not swap over to the larger V8's due to the 301's shorter block height, it changes the location of any mounting bolts that attach to the heads. If you go with an Olds 350-403 then stock parts can be had, but again all the little items needed can add up fast, motor mounts, brackets, pulleys, accessory brackets ect.... Get as complete an engine as possible. I am sure someone has put a Buick 350 into a 2nd gen Firebird in the past, I just have never seen one. In theory the stock 77-81 Buick 3.8 V6 engine mounts should work, along with the accessory brackets. But that is just a guess on my part. I would urge you to look for a Pontiac 350 or 400 just to keep it as simple as possible. And not irritate the Pontiac Tribe, you will get a lot more help here keeping a Pontiac engine in it.
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Jeff R 60 Jaguar Mark 2, 3.8L Automatic 67 Sprint Firebird 230 OHC-6 4-Speed A/C 78 Catlina Safari, Pontiac 400 powered 77 Astre Formula, 215 Buick V-8 T-5 73 Lemans Safari, 400 4bbl 4-speed 71 Catalina Enforcer, 455 4bbl 06 Mallet Solstice #024 LS2, Now with a Tremec 6060 6-speed! 2012 F-150 Echo Boost (My local Ford Dealer SUX!!!) 2020 Dodge Charger Scat pack (recovered) |
#5
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Thanks for the motor mount info, thought that would probably work but wasn't sure. So the biggest holdups are getting the correct brackets and pullies from a donor car. The best option would be to find a Pontiac engine still in the car that a guy can see and hear running and get aircleaner to pan with brackets all in one place. Only trouble is around here Pontiac motors that don't need a rebuild are scarce as hens teeth!
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#6
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I would look for something like this.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1975-PONTIA...25.m3641.l6368 or look for a complete running but rusted out parts car, you can usually find something under $2000 in my area and at least you can drive the engine and see how it runs & drives. That way you get everthing you should need (with the exeption of Motor mounts depending on the body style)
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Jeff R 60 Jaguar Mark 2, 3.8L Automatic 67 Sprint Firebird 230 OHC-6 4-Speed A/C 78 Catlina Safari, Pontiac 400 powered 77 Astre Formula, 215 Buick V-8 T-5 73 Lemans Safari, 400 4bbl 4-speed 71 Catalina Enforcer, 455 4bbl 06 Mallet Solstice #024 LS2, Now with a Tremec 6060 6-speed! 2012 F-150 Echo Boost (My local Ford Dealer SUX!!!) 2020 Dodge Charger Scat pack (recovered) Last edited by camerjeff; 02-12-2018 at 03:25 PM. |
#7
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Yes the 301 two barrel wasn't great. But the 4 barrel version was a heck of a lot better. I had the Quadrajet 4 barrel 301, and turbo 350 trans with the 3.28 rear in my 79 Formula and loved it. Yeah it wasn't as good the older engines but it was good enough to dust off a few Ford 302s. Gas mileage was good too. If you think about it, all Pontiac engines were on the downhill side for power since the gas crunch of 74. 79, 80, and 81 took the worst hits on horsepower. The end of the 400 engine was the worst hit.
Now if you want the good 301, get a turbo 301 and use the block without the turbo setup. 4 barrel intake and Quadrajet. And yes you can fine tune the Quadrajet. But you have to open the body up front the get to the adjustment screws, that take a special tool to adjust them. It's more of a heavy duty engine than the stock 301 without the turbo. I've seen it done back in the 80s, and it turned out pretty nice. Even the exhaust manifolds were heavy duty on turbo engine. I know that for a fact as I had to replace the exhaust manifolds on my 301 and used a set off a turbo 301.
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Gary Get in, ShuT Up, Hang On! Member of the Baltimore Built Brotherhood MY GTO built 4th Week of March 1966 "Crusin' Is Not A Crime" Keep yer stick on the ice. |
#8
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#9
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It would be a good idea to have a GOOD exhaust system put on that engine...true duals, no Y pipe...that should help it breath a lot better
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#10
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The Y pipe MIGHT work as it seems like they made the 301 manifold outlets higher and wider to compensate for the shorter deck height. You could probably take some measurements to confirm, and I am curious to know myself.
While true duals would be better, why not use your existing exhaust if you can. Especially if money is an issue.
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#11
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#12
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I'm not positive, but I think the 400's eventually went to the 3 bolt flange also. Must have still been 2 bolt in '76, unless they are earlier manifolds. For instance, if that motor was in an older car and they used the older car's manifolds. As for the AC bracket, I don't know about that one. Ol' Pinion Head on here seems to be the bracket and pulley expert. Might have to PM him.
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#13
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I was looking for another carburator for this engine cause that's the only thing I didn't get in the deal. I was trying to find a BOP quadrajet when I picked up a Holley quadrajet replacemcnt carb made for a 67 to 69 Chevy. It has the right linkages for the throttle and trans but is set up for a divorced choke. It's a 650 spread bore double pumper, list number 6210-2, I thought it might work cause this is a drive around car not a race car. Actually I think this thing is legal in California, it has something called a gulp tube, whatever that is.
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#14
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That carb should work fine. Just make sure all the vacuum passages on carb are covered by the gasket, so you don't have any vacuum leaks.
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1977 Black Trans Am 180 HP Auto, essentially base model T/A. I'm the original owner, purchased May 7, 1977. Shut it off Shut it off Buddy, I just shut your Prius down... |
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