[darryldayton]

Back in about 1977-78 a buddy and I purchased and resold the car in the title. it was blue. We knew at the time the car had to be somewhat rare due to the combination. I was later told they only made 17. Is this correct? I saw on sell in about 2004 at B-J for $400K

[north]

There is no such thing as a RAIV 455

[darryldayton]

Originally Posted by north

There is no such thing as a RAIV 455

I see conflicting info on this on the net. It has been over 40 years since I owned the car and it was only for a short time but that is what I recall having.

[johnta1]

I was later told they only made 17. Is this correct?

In 1970 there were 17 455 Judges made. 3 were convertible.
But all were automatics.



In 1971 there were 17 convertible Judges made (with 455 HO's), and 3 of them were convertibles.



Now if you have the VIN and hopefully pics of this car it may help?

[1969 Ram Air]

There were 17 1971 Judge convertibles built. Maybe you have the year wrong? They were 455 cars.

[north]

There is no conflicting facts though, a 70 Judge came with a 366 horse 400 as standard equipment (known as Ram Air or Ram Air III (D port heads, High output exhaust manifolds). Optional was a 370 horse 400 Ram Air IV (roundport heads, aluminum intake ) and a rare midyear option was the 360 horse 455, known as the 455 HO (basically the regular 455 from a Grand Prix, with D port heads and the standard "log" manifolds.

[north]

Maybe you are thinking of a 71 Judge convertible, only 17 made and the standard equipment engine was the 335 horse 455 HO which in 71 was low compression but used round ports heads and an aluminum intake similar to the 1970 RA IV 400.

[68bird400HO]

Originally Posted by johnta1

In 1971 there were 17 convertible Judges made (with 455 HO's), and 3 of them were 4 speeds.

Corrected...

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by darryldayton

I see conflicting info on this on the net. It has been over 40 years since I owned the car and it was only for a short time but that is what I recall having.

All RA IV engines are 400 cubic inch.


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[johnta1]

Corrected...

Thanks!
I should have proofread my reply.

[darryldayton]

Originally Posted by north

Maybe you are thinking of a 71 Judge convertible, only 17 made and the standard equipment engine was the 335 horse 455 HO which in 71 was low compression but used round ports heads and an aluminum intake similar to the 1970 RA IV 400.

Well, as I said it has been It has been 40 years. I really thought that the car WAS a 1971 but my old partner remembers it as a 1970. We sold the car to a Chicagoland Pontiac dealer. I am sure it was a 4 speed with console and 455 ram air IV. No pictures, we did not have it long enough to get any and I have no idea of the V.I.N. Possibly with the info of the Pontiac dealer (don't know his name) that bought it and the few that were built maybe someone can determine where the car is now and what it really was.

[1969 Ram Air]

darryl wrote: I am sure it was a 4 speed with console and 455 ram air IV.

I am SURE it wasn't.

[Ram4king]

A lot of people back in the day used to call the 71 a 455 ram air iv due to it having round port heads from the ram iv.
Just saying just like they called the ram 3 a ho car. Just street slang

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by Ram4king

A lot of people back in the day used to call the 71 a 455 ram air iv due to it having round port heads from the ram iv.
Just saying just like they called the ram 3 a ho car. Just street slang

That is pretty interesting. I don't think I ever met anyone who confused the RA IV with a 455 engine. In our area, they were always viewed as very different things.

The 400 H.O. to RA III connection is much easier to make. Same displacement, same block, nearly identical cylinder heads, same exhaust manifolds etc. Even the H.O. manual camshaft is identical to the one used in the RA III autos, so one could be excused for grouping those two engines together.

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[Ram4king]

You have to remember the 455ho from 1970 used D port heads so when they put round ports on them in 71 it had some people confused. And if I'm correct pontiac didn't officially call the ram iii a ram iii. Just a ram air engine. That came from people later in the early 80's.

[johnta1]

What color was the exterior and trim?

Do you think it originally sold around the Chicago area?

[Pepper Judge]

Originally Posted by darryldayton

No pictures, we did not have it long enough to get any and I have no idea of the V.I.N. Possibly with the info of the Pontiac dealer (don't know his name) that bought it and the few that were built maybe someone can determine where the car is now and what it really was.

We can get vehicle and driver history from the MTO here in Ontario.

Go to the DMV and get a history of vehicles previously registered in your name or your company and you will identify the VIN. You should also be able to run the licence plate to get a VIN if you still have record of it.

Good luck; it would be interesting to get the details of the car.

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by Ram4king

You have to remember the 455ho from 1970 used D port heads so when they put round ports on them in 71 it had some people confused. And if I'm correct pontiac didn't officially call the ram iii a ram iii. Just a ram air engine. That came from people later in the early 80's.

I thought the round port 455s were SD engines? Was there also a non SD 455 engine with round port heads?

I think you are correct about the RA III. From what I have read, those were simply badged as Ram Air and the RA III nickname came sometime later. I don't know who started it first, Pontiac or owners but I have seen factory literature with the RA III designation.

Admittedly, back then I was fooled by the RA III name, thinking it was something special compared to the HO from previous years. It wasn't until maybe 5-6 years ago that I learned how similar they actually were.

Heck, there was a time where I thought most ALL GTOs were ram air cars since that was all I was around when I was younger. When I bought our 1968 RA II convertible in 1987 it was painted Mayfair Maize with a white top and it looked like the factory made it that way. It had "RAM AIR" decals on the hood and I didn't think anything of it. It wasn't until much much later when I learned the decals were first used on 1969 models and not correct for that car. When I first started restoring that car my plan was to install RAM AIR II decals since it is a real deuce but I came to my senses before long and came to appreciate the sleeper nature of an unbadged model. Funny how things change over time.

[johnta1]

1971 Judges all had 455 HO's which were round port heads on them.


The 455 SD option was in 1973 and 1974 and only in some Formulas and Trans Ams.
(and those are rare)

[darryldayton]

Originally Posted by johnta1

What color was the exterior and trim?

Do you think it originally sold around the Chicago area?

I lived in Savanna, Illinois on the Mississippi at the time. The guy we bought it from lived there also and had bought it used in the Quad Cities area about 60 miles south of Savanna. The only Chicago connection I know of was that we sold it to a Chicagoland (Chicago suburbs) dealer.

To answer other question in this thread the car was blue outside with the multi-colored stripes and blue inside.

We skipped title on the car so it was never registered in my name. So V.I.N. is a dead end.

I would think finding this actual car would be easier to survey existing 1970/1971 Judge convertible owners. The owner of my old car may be interested in my connection to the car for it's history.

I came to this site not to argue about the car but to learn what I can about the rarity of it and possibly where it is now. I have no dog in this hunt. I have owned around 150 muscle, sports, antique and special interest car in the last 50 years and currently own a 1957 and 1965 Corvettes and a 1966 Dodge Charger. I have no interest in purchasing this old Judge that I once owned.