[ta-kid]

Originally Posted by KEN CROCIE

Wonder if you might have a set of stock 1.5:1 rockers to try. Would point you in the right direction, especialy if your guess about the source of your valve train noise is incorrect.

Yes I do somewhere off a W72 400.Thats a good idea to see what effect on the noise I am hearing.

[ta-kid]

Originally Posted by 78w72

what does "done by dave at SD mean?" dave just provides them & maybe installs them if you have him assemble the heads, the customer still needs to adjust them & check for issues like interference etc.

my cam & lifters were supplied by SD on my current stroker motor with the h/s rockers, 1st set of old style comp rollers lifters had a terrible tick as many have experienced, nothing related to SD at all. he helped me warranty them out of warranty & the new "s" comp lifters are great... no mentionable noises with the same h/s rockers & new lifters.

best of luck tracking down the noise, just stating my experience & that the rockers might not be making the noises you are hearing, could be many different things as mentioned above by HWY. report back if/when you switch to new rockers.

Yes I believe my engine builder actually assembled the valves and springs and all Dave did was Port& Flow them and elongated the push rod holes.I will Update any changes going forward as most threads on this issue do not say if the problem was solved in anyway or form.

[1968GTO421]

Originally Posted by ta-kid

Yes I believe my engine builder actually assembled the valves and springs and all Dave did was Port& Flow them and elongated the push rod holes.I will Update any changes going forward as most threads on this issue do not say if the problem was solved in anyway or form.

Thanks for deciding to post your results, would be most appreciated (as you said, most do not post results)

That way the rest of us can learn something we may not know.

[ta-kid]

So I will be gone for 3 weeks before I address this issue or order any parts.Leaning towards the melling 1.65 stamped rockers Just to prove that the HS roller rockers are causing the noise.

[64speed]

FWIW my machinist said that the Lunati Voodoo were the most robust aluminum rocker he had seen and they are not too expensive.

[Cliff R]

The idea of going to aluminum rockers over steel is to save weight, or keep weight to a minimum. Some of the designs we've seen introduced over the years were pretty big/heavy so it makes me wonder if we were really gaining anything in weight savings vs less flex and added strength with some of the designs?

Over the years I've used just about every single brand of roller rocker out there, steel and aluminum. The only ones I'll touch with a 10 foot pole these days will be the Crane Gold Race, Harland Sharp or Crower Enduro.

Have had issues with all the others in one way or the other. Some were just poor fit requiring jumping thru all sorts of hoops just to get them under the stock valve covers because of the huge size and bulk of the design.

As a coincidence had a nice conversation yesterday with an experienced engine builder that owns his own machine shop and dyno, and has been doing this stuff over 40 years. He came to the same conclusion I did when it comes to roller rocker arms. Stamped steel are fine for most of these builds. He absolutely hates the Comp roller tips and if/when he did use them they REQUIRED hand lapping solid rocker balls into the bodies or 2/3'rd of them turned black or blue before he got the engine off the dyno due to a poor fit between the rocker balls and bodies and the grooved rocker balls allow most of the oil to run down the studs instead of staying where it should for lubrication and getting vaporized to help lubricate and cool the springs/valves, etc.

He also found just as I did that the PRW stainless rockers will eat pins and rollers up in short order, but you wouldn't find this out very quickly unless running a solid lifter cam or "hybrid" set-up. When I had two sets fail here PRW told me that they fixed this issue back in 2009 and did admit that the pins they were using had a "rough" finish and harder than the rollers so created some havoc in that area.

Kind of interesting that someone else who's been at this over the long haul came up with pretty much the same results and opinions on these parts as I have.

I think we see varying results with many of these parts simply because most of these engines don't get enough time put on them to ever really find out what parts make the grade and which ones don't. So basically if you are building an engine that woln't see 10,000 miles in the next 40 years you may be able to get away with more than one that will see 50,000 in the next 2 or 3 years.....FWIW......Cliff

[ta-kid]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

The idea of going to aluminum rockers over steel is to save weight, or keep weight to a minimum. Some of the designs we've seen introduced over the years were pretty big/heavy so it makes me wonder if we were really gaining anything in weight savings vs less flex and added strength with some of the designs?

Over the years I've used just about every single brand of roller rocker out there, steel and aluminum. The only ones I'll touch with a 10 foot pole these days will be the Crane Gold Race, Harland Sharp or Crower Enduro.

Have had issues with all the others in one way or the other. Some were just poor fit requiring jumping thru all sorts of hoops just to get them under the stock valve covers because of the huge size and bulk of the design.

As a coincidence had a nice conversation yesterday with an experienced engine builder that owns his own machine shop and dyno, and has been doing this stuff over 40 years. He came to the same conclusion I did when it comes to roller rocker arms. Stamped steel are fine for most of these builds. He absolutely hates the Comp roller tips and if/when he did use them they REQUIRED hand lapping solid rocker balls into the bodies or 2/3'rd of them turned black or blue before he got the engine off the dyno due to a poor fit between the rocker balls and bodies and the grooved rocker balls allow most of the oil to run down the studs instead of staying where it should for lubrication and getting vaporized to help lubricate and cool the springs/valves, etc.

He also found just as I did that the PRW stainless rockers will eat pins and rollers up in short order, but you wouldn't find this out very quickly unless running a solid lifter cam or "hybrid" set-up. When I had two sets fail here PRW told me that they fixed this issue back in 2009 and did admit that the pins they were using had a "rough" finish and harder than the rollers so created some havoc in that area.

Kind of interesting that someone else who's been at this over the long haul came up with pretty much the same results and opinions on these parts as I have.

I think we see varying results with many of these parts simply because most of these engines don't get enough time put on them to ever really find out what parts make the grade and which ones don't. So basically if you are building an engine that woln't see 10,000 miles in the next 40 years you may be able to get away with more than one that will see 50,000 in the next 2 or 3 years.....FWIW......Cliff

Thanks for your input Cliff.I never questioned the quality of the Harland Sharp rockers just the amount of noise they make.Its been a while since I used the Crane Gold ones but they were quieter the HS ones on my other builds for sure.The sewing machine noise was expected at idle but is quite noticeable at low rpm and city cruising speeds.I must admit that the exhaust system I am running is a reproduction SD 2.5 inch traverse system that I have added Super turbo's to,as resonators for added quietness.Its actually quieter then stock cruising LOL.
Actually too quiet,so my plan is to first change the Super turbos to the straight through Ultra flows to allow a little more volume and bass rumble at cruise.That may be enough to mask rocker noise from my ears during city driving.Everybodies hearing sensitivity is different and maybe my age is catching up with me on loud exhausts.

[Cliff R]

You are most welcome.

The problem or lack of problems we see with a lot of these parts is simply based on the use of them.

I'm sure all the folks making them have good intentions, but how much time can they possible spend with R & D before going to production and reaping the benefits from their ideas and designs?

What happens with a LOT of this stuff is that the consumer becomes the proving ground for them. We've seen this play out many times over the years. What muddies the waters is that some folks who provide input has very little if any time with the parts they are quick to recommend. The other problem is that many folks that have issues may not even report them or belong to any of these Forums. The third issue already mentioned is that very few of these vehicles get a lot of miles put on them these days. So you may be using a part that is serving you well going 200-300 miles a year where another guy who puts 3000-4000 miles a year on his ride has issues with the same part.

Here is a good example. We were supplied a set of Scorpion roller rockers for an engine build. It's raced a lot and does fine for about 7-8 seasons then starts having issues and slowing WAY down at the track. The problem turned out to be something unrelated to the engine itself but it got pulled out for inspection anyhow. While it was out I rolled in some rod bearings and installed a new set of valve springs. I just happened to look closely at the rocker arms and 13 out of 15 were cracked in the same manner as shown below. They were still working fine, but a ticking time bomb and I was glad to discover the issues before putting the engine back in service.

Not my intention to bash that particular part as they may be fine in a "street" engine for a zillion miles with much lighter spring load and less aggressive camshaft with a butt-ton less lift and duration........Cliff

[jimmy daniel]

2 years ago I switched my Comp Gold 1.5s out for the Scorpion 1.65s on my LONG time trusty 463. Less than 20 passes later I breaks, 2 are cracked and the lifter bore is broken in the process. I sure hated losing that motor. Sold all the parts and built the 535. Expensive lesson!

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

What muddies the waters is that some folks who provide input has very little if any time with the parts they are quick to recommend. The other problem is that many folks that have issues may not even report them or belong to any of these Forums. The third issue already mentioned is that very few of these vehicles get a lot of miles put on them these days. So you may be using a part that is serving you well going 200-300 miles a year where another guy who puts 3000-4000 miles a year on his ride has issues with the same part.

Exactly right. Most of the classics here are hardly driven so that has to be taken into consideration when durability is in question and someone recommends something. I'm one of the very few I know on the forum here that actually drives classics day in day out and put them in every possible driving condition.

I've experienced the same issues Cliff is posting about. I for sure don't like the cheap comp roller tip rockers. I've personally watched those things come fresh off the dyno with about 10 pulls and the fulcrum be completely black and blue. That was 25 years ago. We found the issue and it was exactly as Cliff described. The balls don't sit in the socket, they ride up on the edges and didn't even touch the bottom, creating a ton of heat. As Cliff commented it appears they are still making these things the same way, which is disappointing to say the least. We made phone calls and complained about this more than 2 decades ago.

I have run a ton of Harland Sharp and Crower Enduro on many engines, for many miles with no complaints. One set of Crowers I've now had on an engine close to 30 years, with 2 short blocks, 3 cylinder heads, and 4 camshaft swaps, including 2 rollers, one with 275lbs. seat pressure. Those rockers are still going strong today. I had a set of Harlands on another engine that got more than 30k miles over a 10 year period and they were fine when I pulled them off.

My only complaint with Harlands is I do tend to get a pinch of sewing machine noise with them. I think they run a little more bearing clearance in them than I see with the steel rockers. I've run them on both hydraulic flat tappet and roller cam applications. It's so mild that usually if you're running aluminum valve covers, have factory hood insulation etc... that once the hood is closed it's not even noticeable.

[ta-kid]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Exactly right. Most of the classics here are hardly driven so that has to be taken into consideration when durability is in question and someone recommends something. I'm one of the very few I know on the forum here that actually drives classics day in day out and put them in every possible driving condition.

I've experienced the same issues Cliff is posting about. I for sure don't like the cheap comp roller tip rockers. I've personally watched those things come fresh off the dyno with about 10 pulls and the fulcrum be completely black and blue. That was 25 years ago. We found the issue and it was exactly as Cliff described. The balls don't sit in the socket, they ride up on the edges and didn't even touch the bottom, creating a ton of heat. As Cliff commented it appears they are still making these things the same way, which is disappointing to say the least. We made phone calls and complained about this more than 2 decades ago.

I have run a ton of Harland Sharp and Crower Enduro on many engines, for many miles with no complaints. One set of Crowers I've now had on an engine close to 30 years, with 2 short blocks, 3 cylinder heads, and 4 camshaft swaps, including 2 rollers, one with 275lbs. seat pressure. Those rockers are still going strong today. I had a set of Harlands on another engine that got more than 30k miles over a 10 year period and they were fine when I pulled them off.

My only complaint with Harlands is I do tend to get a pinch of sewing machine noise with them. I think they run a little more bearing clearance in them than I see with the steel rockers. I've run them on both hydraulic flat tappet and roller cam applications. It's so mild that usually if you're running aluminum valve covers, have factory hood insulation etc... that once the hood is closed it's not even noticeable.

I actually did insulate the firewall more and the hood for the same reason but I believe a lot of the noise comes through the heat and ventilation ducting anyways.

[ta-kid]

So the mellings MRK532 Rocker arm kit should fit my 7/16 studs no problem?Slot length should be ok with my voodoo 703 cam.Going to reuse my poly locks.

[bulletpruf]

I'd run some Melling 1.65 rockers in a heartbeat. A well know Pure Stock Drags racer who spends a lot of time on the dyno told me that his RAIII and RAIV Pontiacs consistently made more HP with 1.65 stamped steel rockers over 1.65 roller rockers.

He was quite surprised, but his theory is that the stamped steel rockers open the valve quicker.

[kyle_blake]

hey ta, what city in bc do you live in? i'm in coquitlam and run hs 1.65 with hot rod oil from lordco.... crane cam. mine sounds sewing machine as well. I tried 1.5 prw alum several years back. similar sewing action as well.

[Cliff R]

Here's another classic example of parts folks buy that don't make the grade. This past weekend one of my customers brings his Olds 442 in here because he thinks it's pinging at light part throttle. He also installed a Proform distributor in this build and didn't know exactly what it was adding for timing as he doesn't have an marked balancer on the engine.

Turns out the Proform was adding a BUTT-TON of timing and very quickly, so we removed the distributor and welded in a positive stop for the advance and stronger springs to slow things down some. I adjusted the VA to add another 10 degrees and good to go. During the procedure I noticed the gear was heavily worn and down to nearly a "knife" edge on the teeth. He said it had about 200 miles on it.

The Chinese who copied the factory HEI to make these things thankfully use a .490" shaft and I located a mint condition stock gear to replace the heavily worn gear. Just hope it didn't do any damage to his cam drive gear or anything else.

This isn't the first time I've seen this with aftermarket distributors. The offshore copies are OK to PATHETIC for quality control and I try to stay clear of them as much as possible.......Cliff

Pick of the Proform Olds gear below 200 miles on it. Second pick is the bronze gear from my distributor after a recent inspection. It has 10 years on it and a LOT of street and track time......

[kyle_blake]

Thanks sharing, I enjoyed reading that.

[ta-kid]

Originally Posted by kyle_blake

hey ta, what city in bc do you live in? i'm in coquitlam and run hs 1.65 with hot rod oil from lordco.... crane cam. mine sounds sewing machine as well. I tried 1.5 prw alum several years back. similar sewing action as well.

I am actually from Maple Ridge but now live in Hope BC

[68blackbird]

I grew up in Abbotsford... felt like it was important to share! 🤣

Originally Posted by ta-kid

I am actually from Maple Ridge but now live in Hope BC

[ta-kid]

So I had a good look at geometry and clearances on the rockers,spring retainers and pushrod holes.No touchy anywhere that I can see. So I have ordered the Mellings stamped MRK 532 kits and 16 -7/16 hardened washers for top of the balls(Some Posts say they are needed under the polylocks) and hopefully my existing polylocks will work and lock once set.Will be 3 to 4 weeks delivery here in Canada.
I looked into getting the Crane Gold 1.65 Roller Rockers,which I have had good luck with in the past, but they are $800 a set here in Canada.So I went the cheaper route for now to prove the noise is the HS rockers.Can always get the Cranes Later.
As I promised I will keep this thread going with updates on my results.Oh by the way I did replace my super turbo Resonator mufflers with the Dynomax Race 24 inch bullets and the car has a nice idle burble to it now using the SD traverse muffler from the Parts Place, but still hear the rockers cruising at low speeds.

[78w72]

if you decide to sell those noisy 1.65 HS rockers let me know.