[1965gp]

Keith- that was very informative- thanks for posting.

One key thing I thought the article nailed was the rebadging. Isn’t this what seems to get GM every 20 years or so?

[jerry455]

I take exception to the article because I work for GM. Yes we have had some problems. There have been bad decisions made. We are much faster to react now than ever before. We have gotten better at recalls, we had one this year where there was only one vehicle involved. Our suppliers are better and their quality is improving. Their closer adherence to quality of their product allows our vehicle to be better. Unfortunately as more and more of the vehicle is computer and electronically controlled, there is going to be problems. I know several mechanics who work on all of the other brands and I hear horror stories about their products also. For some reason everyone likes to beat up on GM and Ford. It is fashionable to bash the American companies. I have a lot of friends who drive foreign and especially the premium brands and will never tell me about their cars problems. I know the mechanics and technicians who fix them. The point is every brand has problems. Vehicles are very complicated and getting worse. I would love to see Pontiac come back. I loved that brand since my dad bought his 1966 GTO from Royal Pontiac when I was 4 years old. It left a mark on me. I love Pontiacs and my kids do also. My grand kids are also going to know Pontiacs , when I take them riding in my 1976 Firebird. We all can be glad we had what we had. I feel sorry for the kids now a days who only care about their cell phone or video game.

[Chief of the 60's]

LOL

You can clearly spot the GM brand loyalty people. They're the ones wearing the rose-colored glasses.

To even utter that there is any GM vehicle that is equal or better than Toyota, Honda, Hyundai/Kia, etc..... Well that just gets another LOL

There is a reason why GM went belly-up and in my opinion, they should have stayed that way. They have screwed enough people.

[77 Canamman]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

LOL

You can clearly spot the GM brand loyalty people. They're the ones wearing the rose-colored glasses.

To even utter that there is any GM vehicle that is equal or better than Toyota, Honda, Hyundai/Kia, etc..... Well that just gets another LOL

There is a reason why GM went belly-up and in my opinion, they should have stayed that way. They have screwed enough people.

What part of "I haven't had any issues with any of my late model GM vehicles" don't you comprehend?

Are you calling me a liar?

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by tom s

My wife is on her 5th Escalade with no issues.I have been driving GM SUVs from Envoys,Terrian,Yukons and Silverados as long as I can remember with no issue.To be honest we never keep a car over 80-90 thousand miles.My 2005 Silverado has 91 on it now and will keep it as my beater.FWIW,Tom

Good, Tom. My ‘03 Silverado just turned 180,000 miles. My BIL was speaking from a mechanic’s point of view. He has to fix the fubars from GM. I will reiterate what I have said for years: ALL the OEs build junk on occasion.

[jerry455]

Every manufacturer has had problems. M y Chevrolet Colorado is better than my friends Toyota truck. His frame rusted in half. Then his Honda Odyssey trans went for the 3rd time. My brother in laws high pressure fuel pumps are failing again on his BMW. He found out that is common on BMW's. He also needs $4000 worth of engine service, his quote not mine. You have the right to hate GM if you want but the other brands are not perfect and have screwed customers also.

[66sprint6]

Although I had many issues with their pick ups that I faithfully purchased or leased for decades, I wouldn't hold that against them now. When my 07' Tundra finally dies out, I will evaluate every product. I just don't know when the heck that will be.

[Sirrotica]

BMW has never ever been a car that was cheap or easy to maintain, foolish for anyone to ever expect them to be.

Honda has always fallen way short on their automatic transmissions too, for like the last 30 years they have been easily broken. When I worked at a Honda store, after a snowstorm there were usually a dozen cars with blown transmissions after the storm, you absolutely cannot rock them to get unstuck......…..rock.....rock....BOOM.....

GM could use better brake line tubing, especially in their trucks. 5 years in a salt environment, and all the tubing is gone...……...C'mon Man!!!

[67drake]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

GM could use better brake line tubing, especially in their trucks. 5 years in a salt environment, and all the tubing is gone...……...C'mon Man!!!

Ditto. One of my peeves. I think I went through 2 sets on my ‘03 Silverado and ‘99 Suburban.
I bought a ‘11 Silverado out of Arizona this past year and I sprayed Fluid Film on the underside. I hope this helps. I just bought a ‘18 Suburban, but don’t know if they’ve improved this issue yet, so I’ll be spraying this one too.

[salem1912]

Originally Posted by 67drake

Ditto. One of my peeves. I think I went through 2 sets on my ‘03 Silverado and ‘99 Suburban.
I bought a ‘11 Silverado out of Arizona this past year and I sprayed Fluid Film on the underside. I hope this helps. I just bought a ‘18 Suburban, but don’t know if they’ve improved this issue yet, so I’ll be spraying this one too.

GM thinks you should be buying a new one every five years. Dodge was selling a Dart every ten years(60's/70's} til they figure that's not good for them.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

BMW has never ever been a car that was cheap or easy to maintain, foolish for anyone to ever expect them to be.

Honda has always fallen way short on their automatic transmissions too, for like the last 30 years they have been easily broken. When I worked at a Honda store, after a snowstorm there were usually a dozen cars with blown transmissions after the storm, you absolutely cannot rock them to get unstuck......…..rock.....rock....BOOM.....

GM could use better brake line tubing, especially in their trucks. 5 years in a salt environment, and all the tubing is gone...……...C'mon Man!!!

My wife bought a series of Mercedes Benzs a few years back. Her CLK350(18,000 miles when she bought it) was a great, reliable vehicle once I started taking it to the dealer for maintenance. Her C300 4 Motion ( all wheel drive) was extremely dependable through 60,000+ miles. Her C250 was an absolute POS.

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

LOL

You can clearly spot the GM brand loyalty people. They're the ones wearing the rose-colored glasses.

To even utter that there is any GM vehicle that is equal or better than Toyota, Honda, Hyundai/Kia, etc..... Well that just gets another LOL

There is a reason why GM went belly-up and in my opinion, they should have stayed that way. They have screwed enough people.

They didn’t belly up because of their sales, rather it was their profit margin. The ones who really got screwed were the bond and shareholders when the government walked in. The Ford motor company was smart and didn’t make a deal with that devil.

[pont3]

Originally Posted by 77 Canamman

What part of "I haven't had any issues with any of my late model GM vehicles" don't you comprehend?

Are you calling me a liar?

See, he thinks only people who own Toyota, Honda, or other non-American brands should be loyal. What he doesn't realize is that we ALL have tried and experienced those "preferred" brands, yet, we come back to GM. He is immune to whatever disease it is that plagues us. See, he can put up with whatever idiosyncrasies that plague his "preferred" brand, but can't somehow see how we would be willing to make similar compromises. They have many frustrations with their "preferred" brand but somehow they are unwilling to talk publicly about them, especially when we already know they exist. Yet, we are the ones with "blind loyalty" who are too stupid to understand the choices we have made.

I have owned MANY non-GM brands and imports, but always with a GM as backup. I don't have enough time or bandwith to mention all the different cars I've owned and driven thousands of mile across country, but the ONLY one I've ever owned that required a flatbed ride was a Toyota Supra, with less than 15k miles..

I will freely admit that during a period of time, from about 1988 to about early to mid 2000's, both Toyota and Honda made better quality cars, (overall) than most domestics. They weren't necessarily more dependable, but had better body integrity and interiors. TODAY, not so much.

[Formulabruce]

The article in question is a 1 way "opinion" piece on GM.
1. It lacks marketing knowledge to back up claims such as the section on Pontiac's Demise.
People do NOT realize that the Major cause of the GM restructure was LEGACY costs.
Combine that with the SEC allowing traders to overvalue their companys' and credit default swaps,
and you have the prescription for a failure.
GM would NOT EVER let Pontiac build a 2 seat car. John DeLorean can tell you that. The Firebird
Would be the ONLY "Excitement" car left for Pontiac, and profits and sales were just Not high enough.
Could it be consolidated and kept? Maybe, BUt when you are supporting 5 Plants in China to build Buicks
and you are building the G2 in Mexico, Maybe the labor structure just cant do it in the US for cheaper cars.
Gm has been much better in the last 12 years in recalls. I get a post card every month to have my Solstice done,
and it says it comes right from Pontiac...
So the Buick Focus in the article could have some merrit, but didnt mention the 5 plants in China.
Consumer reports are rigged, to a degree. That said, the reliability of most GM cars has gone up and up year after year.
The GM "Build quality" section of this article is all wrong. WE are at a place where people just assemble "sub assemblies". Like 1970, but more complex assemblies.'
Training the Union workers more will not do a thing for anything if they can do their job. GM is cross training more though for various stations.
FIAT: Sucks, and still Sucks. GM made a great move to ditch it. ASK any tech that works on Fiats, especially the Fiat 500. The writer has a woody for J-Lo I think.
>> HUmmer.. Arnold brought Hummer to the Civilians, NOT Demand. He had his first in 1992 and still wants an electric one. The Public has near Zero Demand for a H1, H2, and H3
GM made a good move to can this brand, even though they tried to build it as cheaply as possible.
>>Single CAB Pick up trucks. : OK there is some MERIT to this writer on this subject, BUT .. ONly bring back a Loaded SHORT BED, STEP side. OF all the trucks through history, these are the ones that get fixed, restored, and adored.
>>Bring back the SS?? NO, While I like Holden in general, the GTO stood a much better chance of success than a SS built to compete with Mercedes. 4 door SS is just a NON starter.
Speaking of Holden, IF GM wanted to sell more cars, they should import the Holden UTE, as that DOES have a market in the USA Especially with the demise of the small, inexpensive, Ford ranger.
GM exits car market mostly due to labor costs. Its understandable. Just think, FORD has a 4 door MUSTANG now. That should appeal to??
>>The Colorado was NOT a replacement for the S-10 . GM wanted to get buyers to purchase more expensive trucks, and compete with the new Toyota built "mid size truck market"
The GM Mid size trucks with the 5 in a row, was NOT a good deal ..but it was not a mini truck like a S-10.
Cadillac sedans are Not needed and market is shrunk already. Buick still makes the high end car for China. Making SUV's that sell, will save Cadillac.
>>EV's. GM has improved theirs and the hybrids, but the batteries and cost to make them remain high, and cars remain Heavy. The EV division will go slowly untill there is enough Solar to severely reduce charging costs.
>> Streamline products? Probably NOT. People are Brand loyal to a "T" . This shows in clothing, Cars, sports, even Politics. People dont end up knowing much about their brand, but choose it cause they did before, like your "dads Oldsmobile" Marketing has shown that people remember Acronyms or short names. Buick, and Chevy are short. Pontiac outlasted Oldsmobile because it is also a City, and a Indian Chief. Cadillac is in trouble, unless it's
changed to "Caddy" All Dunkin Donuts are now just "dunkin" , etc, etc...
Reliability ? It is improving for GM.GM sells more truck related vehicles than anyone else.
Nobody makes an Escalade for the price of an Escalade that is Better..
This artice was lacking on facts and big on emotional cues to get people going.
PS. Chevy had a deal with Toyota = NOVA.. Failure
Pontiac had a deal with Toyota = Vibe .. Success.
Gm Part ownership of Isuzu brought us the DURAMAX...
Not all is bad with General Motors "Company"

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by 1965gp

That is a really good article.

Makes you wonder how they win all these JD Power awards.

My base Ram 1500 had fewer rattles and issues than my Z71 at 50k miles

And my '02 Ram-1500 quad cab 2wd with the 4.7 V8 (that we bought used in 2003) was the biggest POS of a truck I've ever owned. Sold it with 143K miles after having to do a top end rebuild on the driver's side cylinder head due to a factory defect in the casting, which caused the valve guides to recess in the head, eventually making the springs "bottom out" and push the cam follower (rocker) right off. When the passenger side head started the same thing, I just replaced the lifter/follower and sold it. Let it be someone else's headache.

Prior to that the differential went up just before the 70K warranty. The dashboard cracked and fell apart into large chunks. The servo's for the ventilation doors in the ductwork under the dash had to be replaced 3 separate times. when replacing the driver's door latch mechanism because the built-in electric door lock servo went up and would no longer allow the door to even be manually locked, I discovered the sheetmetal of the cab on the A-pillar (where the door hinges mount) was so thin that you could flex by barely leaning against the door when it was fully open. The rear 1/4's began rusting out above the wheelwells after 4 years of ownership. I could go on and on.

Meanwhile my '99 GMC with 302K miles still doesn't have a cracked dash and is still running on the original factory engine, trans and differential and the rear 1/4's have just started to rust in the same place as the Dodge within the last 2 years.

[Simple Man]

I heard some people who bought GM vehicles pre bailout, found out later that many warranty issues post bailout were not going to be covered. If that happened, it sure wouldn't go over well with the general public.

[Brian Baker]

I've owned 2 Fords (F-150 and Excursion) and one Dodge (Ram-1500)...all 3 turned out to be huge pieces of sh*t in varying degrees.

I've also owned 3 GM trucks since 1989, all 1/2 tons, and two of them I've gotten 300+ thousand miles out of each (the '89 I bought new I traded in on a new '92). Can't say that for the other 3 POS's I've owned.

[Brian Baker]

I take that back...I've owned 4 GM trucks...just bought a used '05 Chevy Avalanche within the last year so we'll see how that does.

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by Simple Man

I heard some people who bought GM vehicles pre bailout, found out later that many warranty issues post bailout were not going to be covered. If that happened, it sure wouldn't go over well with the general public.

For a short while that was the case. Once again, GM tried screwing the public citing that the "new" GM was not responsible for anything related to the "old" GM, warranties included. That action mysteriously and quietly went away. Go figure.

The big question still remains.... When is GM going to fully give back all of my tax money they were "loaned"?

[77 Canamman]

I find it funny that he constantly chides the company that he makes mega bucks by selling their obsolete parts for their obsolete cars.

Most of the nOS parts retailers are huge d-bags anyway.