[yellow1098]

Ok I am about to finally pull the trigger on my heads for my 461 stoker. I’m trying to get to 650~700 hp and 600ft. I’m leaning towards a custom grind hydraulic roller cam. I have gotten quotes from butler and kre......butler has been good to me and where I have gotten all my other parts including the stroker kit as well as featured my car on there FB page..... The two chooses are......

Butler......
87cc Edlebrock Round ports
CNC ported 340cfm titn. Retainers
$3,200

Kauffman......
Round ports
80cc
$3200

Are there any benefits over one or the other? What’s the difference in the 7cc’s....do I just go with which company I like better?.......is there anything I should get done before I buy? I’m going to get a port matched intake as well.... Thank you all for the info, experience, and help with this big long awaited purchase!

[77 TRASHCAN]

This might be a better question for the racing side.
If you are able to truly make those numbers (I am not knocking you effort, just being real, and envious, Lol), my concern would be doing so with a stock block. I’m no expert, but all my gathered experiences from others here, making over 550ish HP, starts making the block a very weak component in a build.
Carry On!!! Wish you the best!!!

[steve25]

The beginning of this month I just went thru a set of KRE high port heads that had ported by them and run for a season or so by the owner.

I found that the short turns had been mis ported or something and to get the right shape KRE then had to use epoxy to reshape the short turn and some of it had come off on this high velocity critical area leaving a nice ledge.

Also the heads where said to flow 360 on the Intake side, and the one port I tested only hit 343 cfm and this was at .050" more lift then where the heads was told to flow 360 cfm.

I can't say for sure why they had to use epoxy in a brand new casting , but it sure looks like to me the head was mis ported some how!

I will temper this with the fact that I have ported 3 sets of KRE D port heads and found the castings fine with the exception that they flowed less out of the box then stated on there web site.

[Steve C.]

Already mentioned in another thread....

Biggest concern with the high ports is they raise the intake manifold about an inch and make it nearly impossible to fit a good induction system under a factory F-body hood (If it applies).

The High Ports typically use long 6.200" Length intake valves. And with a large 2.200" diameter. Result is a lot of valvetrain mass and needs heavier spring pressure.


.

[PAUL K]

Butler..... without a doubt

[78w72]

have you considered SD performance? last i checked they were cheaper than butler & did more work with their porting packages.

i used butler for my stroker kit & they were great, but went with SD for cam choice & will go with them for head porting down the road.

[i82much]

If you don’t mind, let us know what each builder recommends as to:

1) valve springs - pressure, beehive vs conventional, and
2) oil weight and pressure for a hyd roller at the engine speeds you propose

[yellow1098]

Originally Posted by 77 TRASHCAN

This might be a better question for the racing side.
If you are able to truly make those numbers (I am not knocking you effort, just being real, and envious, Lol), my concern would be doing so with a stock block. I’m no expert, but all my gathered experiences from others here, making over 550ish HP, starts making the block a very weak component in a build.
Carry On!!! Wish you the best!!!

I am running a 70 4 bolt main block with billet end caps....so I went with the best non aftermarket block I could....but definitely fingers crossed

[yellow1098]

Sounds like Butler is definitely the way to go! The KRE’s are the “highports” correct? I won’t run into that issue with the Butlers?

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by yellow1098

Ok I am about to finally pull the trigger on my heads for my 461 stoker. I’m trying to get to 650~700 hp and 600ft. I’m leaning towards a custom grind hydraulic roller cam. I have gotten quotes from butler and kre......butler has been good to me and where I have gotten all my other parts including the stroker kit as well as featured my car on there FB page..... The two chooses are......

Butler......
87cc Edlebrock Round ports
CNC ported 340cfm titn. Retainers
$3,200

Kauffman......
Round ports
80cc
$3200

Are there any benefits over one or the other? What’s the difference in the 7cc’s....do I just go with which company I like better?.......is there anything I should get done before I buy? I’m going to get a port matched intake as well.... Thank you all for the info, experience, and help with this big long awaited purchase!

Since you are looking at 80 cc and 87 cc heads. I have to ask. What CR are you looking to run?

Stan

[gogtogo]

I recall the KRE HP’s having a few issues in the early running of the first casting but they resolved all that. KRE is doing great things for the Pontiac brand. I’m extremely happy with my HP and @ 350 cfm matched the power at less RPM then Butler WP’s. I have also done my fair if business with the Butlers, particularly when Jim was running things. I fell both heads are a win, just depends your end goal. The Butler camp definitely knows the E Head and have proven to make big reliable power for a long time. I went HP’s as I planned to continue building on my combination eventually going to a aftermarket big cube combo.
Good luck, and either way is a win and a good time to be a Pontiac fan with all the options.

[JSchmitz]

I bought Butler Edelbrock 290 cfm D-ports recently. Heads are very impressive. Great guys to work with. Great customer service!

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by JSchmitz

I bought Butler Edelbrock 290 cfm D-ports recently. Heads are very impressive. Great guys to work with. Great customer service!

Does Butler actually do the machining / porting?

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by gogtogo

I’m extremely happy with my HP and @ 350 cfm matched the power at less RPM then Butler WP’s.

How much power you making? Butler wp's have made some big power

[Steve C.]

So there is no misunderstanding the OP is considering Butlers 340 cfm heads and leaning towards a hydraulic roller cam. The Butler Wide Port heads require offset shaft rockers and offset lifters, thus the use of a solid roller cam.


.

[JSchmitz]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

Does Butler actually do the machining / porting?

They hand port the 290 heads. They also offer a CNC 310 cfm head. I wanted to keep the ports to a minimum with my setup. I'm not sure about the rest of the machine work. They do come with Ferrea valves and springs etc. set up for my cam.

https://butlerperformance.com/i-2445...tegory:1287735

[JSchmitz]

A couple of pics.

[yellow1098]

I guess KRE highport question was more about fitment with my shaker ....Compression wise I’m going to be about 10:5:1......I’m thinking high enough to get the power but still run high octane pump gas

[gogtogo]

The E Head is very hard if not impossible to beat when hood clearance is a issue. The Northwind from KRE may also be something to consider as it is lower profile and makes big power. With my winter freshening I’m good to test a Northwind vs my Victor.

[steve25]

Lets just make note here that you do not need 340 cfm heads to make 650 hp, or even 680 hp if your compression is above 12 to 1, so you can save some bucks if you like .