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Pontiac - Boost Turbo, supercharged, Nitrous, EFI & other Power Adders discussed here. |
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#1
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How much power could an OHC straight six support?
Wondering how much power Pontiac's straight six is capable of, strength-wise.. I6's are great for turbocharging and weigh less than a V8, right? I've seen some cool-looking turbo'd I6s online but haven't seen their dyno numbers. If the goal is sub-500hp numbers, wouldn't a high boost, small cube engine be more efficient than a low boost, large cube one?
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1979 Esprit, Starting the Resto-Mod Process with a 350 and a TKO 600. "And the one thing you can say about Capitalism is that, although it produces inequality-which it absolutely does-it also produces wealth, and all the other systems DON’T. They just produce inequality." Dr. Jordan Peterson |
#2
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To my knowledge no one has dynoed a boosted OHC 6. Looking at the way the 230 block was designed and the use of forged rods, there were plans for more horsepower. With that being said, one could build a turbo 6 close to 500 hp with the right parts and controls in place. There are a couple builds planned, but not sure if the builders will Dyno them or not. I would build a 230 if I had a choice.
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#3
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Actually, several have been boosted with both turbos and centrifugal superchargers. I don't know of any max-effort race builds but I know of at least one that made over 400 horsepower reliably and I would suspect that the bottom end would support quite a bit more with some forged rods and pistons. Chevy small-block internals are easy to come by, making rod and piston choices readily available.
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Don Keefe, Founding Editor-in-Chief, Poncho Perfection Magazine (October 1, 2015- present) www.ponchoperfection.com Contributing Editor: Collectible Automobile (1999- present) Author: "Grand Prix: Pontiac's Luxury Performance Car" (Released April 27, 2007) "How to Restore Your Pontiac GTO" (Released July 15, 2012) "Pontiac Concept and Show Cars, 1939-1980" (Release Date April, 2016) "Leave the gun, take the cannoli." |
#4
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Hello Don. I am aware of the centrifugal supercharged OHC 6 in the 69 FB. I have yet to see the actual dyno data on that boosted OHC 6. Pretty much only bench racing numbers. While there are several that have been built and are currently being built, no one has shared actual data to my knowledge.
Rob Woodland Motorsports LLC |
#5
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466 Mike Voycey shortblock, 310cfm SD KRE heads, SD "OF 2.0 cam", torker 2 373 gears 3200 Continental Convertor best et 10.679/127.5/1.533 60ft 308 gears best et 10.76/125.64/1.5471 |
#6
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Quote:
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Don Keefe, Founding Editor-in-Chief, Poncho Perfection Magazine (October 1, 2015- present) www.ponchoperfection.com Contributing Editor: Collectible Automobile (1999- present) Author: "Grand Prix: Pontiac's Luxury Performance Car" (Released April 27, 2007) "How to Restore Your Pontiac GTO" (Released July 15, 2012) "Pontiac Concept and Show Cars, 1939-1980" (Release Date April, 2016) "Leave the gun, take the cannoli." |
#7
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I am in the process of a hopefully high hp 68 250. I started building it a couple years ago but got sidetracked on a few other car builds, was planning on running a s360 but have since decided to go much bigger and really see what it will do. I am going to run either a really nice magnum 80mm turbo I have or a s488. I think either one will make plenty of power once I get them lit. I have a sheet metal intake I started building that I plan to run and will probably end up making headers. Was going to run a stock exhaust manifold but I am worried about getting it sealed with my intake. Hoping to start back on it now that I am done helping with my brothers twin 85mm 74 gto. This combo is going in my 74 gto that I ran the twin turbos in for years. The ohc bottom ends look very tough and I think it will make some steam if I can get enough air and fuel through the top end. I am very excited to get back on this project, these are very cool engines from an engineering standpoint.
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#8
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So 400hp+ is doable with a turbo? Would an I6 fit under the hood of a 2nd gen firebird? Reason I ask is my bird has T-tops, and most everyone agrees that, even after frame upgrades and a minimal roll cage, more than 500hp is asking for permanent damage from body twisting. So if I'm keeping the power level below that, a lighter, smaller engine with 12-15psi of boost is a better choice on paper than a full-sized V8 running 5psi. And less weight in the front will make for better handling, too.
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1979 Esprit, Starting the Resto-Mod Process with a 350 and a TKO 600. "And the one thing you can say about Capitalism is that, although it produces inequality-which it absolutely does-it also produces wealth, and all the other systems DON’T. They just produce inequality." Dr. Jordan Peterson |
The Following User Says Thank You to LM93 For This Useful Post: | ||
#9
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...
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When I die, I want to go peacefully like my grandfather did, in his sleep. Not screaming like the passengers in his car. |
#10
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Thanks for the photos, I wasn't sure the timing cover wouldn't be too tall.
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1979 Esprit, Starting the Resto-Mod Process with a 350 and a TKO 600. "And the one thing you can say about Capitalism is that, although it produces inequality-which it absolutely does-it also produces wealth, and all the other systems DON’T. They just produce inequality." Dr. Jordan Peterson |
#11
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I see 600 HP in the article, but don't know if that's from dyno runs. 600 seems optimistic on a little 3-71, 2-port injector, tiny exhaust stacks, etc.
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Anybody else on this planet campaign a M/T hemi Pontiac for eleven seasons? ... or has built a record breaking DOHC hemi four cylinder Pontiac? ... or has driven a couple laps of Nuerburgring with Tri-Power Pontiac power?(back in 1967) ... or has a Pontiac born the same year as Jim Wangers? (1926} |
#12
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Searching the internet forums for boosted I6 engine builds, I'm seeing a bunch of projects like new manufactured cams, modified Ford roller followers, etc. Most of them seem to have petered out due to cost or lack of interest. Are there sources for aftermarket parts for higher-than stock power outputs? Has anyone successfully adapted parts from other engines? I'm sure a major piston company could make forged pistons for a hefty price, but a durable valvetrain for a high boost, high revving engine is what I'm concerned about more than the bottom end.
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1979 Esprit, Starting the Resto-Mod Process with a 350 and a TKO 600. "And the one thing you can say about Capitalism is that, although it produces inequality-which it absolutely does-it also produces wealth, and all the other systems DON’T. They just produce inequality." Dr. Jordan Peterson |
#13
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Not much in the way of performance hardware out there for the OHC motors, especially the cam and followers.
Jay Leno had some followers made out of tool steel but that seems unnecessary as there are stock one available. Clifford site mentions a manifold but I don’t know if they are really available. A few options on getting custom made forged pistons but nothing specifically made and in stock for the 230 or 250. In my opinion, you won’t be able to order a bunch of stuff online and build a hot OHC . But you can use stock components (generally pretty stout) and/or try to make or have some custom parts made. Sounds like the definition of old school hot rodding. |
#14
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Isn't the I-6 bore size the same as a 350 Pontiac V8?
Stan
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Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
The Following User Says Thank You to Stan Weiss For This Useful Post: | ||
#15
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Wallace Racing lists the I6 bore at 3.87" for the 230 and 3.88 for the 250. Stock 350 bore is 3.875 and I have a set of 3.905 TRW pistons. Would pistons for a V8 work, or does a I6 need a different skirt or something? Pin offset? Piston weight and crank counterweight?
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1979 Esprit, Starting the Resto-Mod Process with a 350 and a TKO 600. "And the one thing you can say about Capitalism is that, although it produces inequality-which it absolutely does-it also produces wealth, and all the other systems DON’T. They just produce inequality." Dr. Jordan Peterson |
#16
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What you need now is to see if any other engine has the bore you need with a compression height around what you need. If one doesn't posts them up I see if I can find my books and post them up.
A couple more which my work are SBC 283 and SBC 307 Stan
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Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
#17
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And the pistons would need a sizable dish in order to run pump gas.
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1979 Esprit, Starting the Resto-Mod Process with a 350 and a TKO 600. "And the one thing you can say about Capitalism is that, although it produces inequality-which it absolutely does-it also produces wealth, and all the other systems DON’T. They just produce inequality." Dr. Jordan Peterson |
#18
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Something like this? https://www.summitracing.com/parts/u...-020/make/jeep
Since most Pontiac C/R's were overrated from the factory, what are the actual combustion chamber sizes?
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1979 Esprit, Starting the Resto-Mod Process with a 350 and a TKO 600. "And the one thing you can say about Capitalism is that, although it produces inequality-which it absolutely does-it also produces wealth, and all the other systems DON’T. They just produce inequality." Dr. Jordan Peterson |
#19
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Are the rods for the Chevy and Pontiac I6 the same? Scat makes forged rods for the Chevy.
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1979 Esprit, Starting the Resto-Mod Process with a 350 and a TKO 600. "And the one thing you can say about Capitalism is that, although it produces inequality-which it absolutely does-it also produces wealth, and all the other systems DON’T. They just produce inequality." Dr. Jordan Peterson |
#20
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I don't know about "strength-wise". But back when I was on the phone a lot with Fritz Voight (Mickey's crewchief, who gave me a lot of help with my hemi V8) I asked if he and Mickey ever toyed with the OHC six. He said yes, but any attempts at serious power caused head cracking between the valves.
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Anybody else on this planet campaign a M/T hemi Pontiac for eleven seasons? ... or has built a record breaking DOHC hemi four cylinder Pontiac? ... or has driven a couple laps of Nuerburgring with Tri-Power Pontiac power?(back in 1967) ... or has a Pontiac born the same year as Jim Wangers? (1926} |
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