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#21
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Why would you spend money making a system R-12 when it is gone. Theres a reason why tons of it is at swap meets.
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" Is wearing a helmet illegal" Mike Kerr 1-29-09 |
#22
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If you have to sit in traffic with the a/c on - R12 hands down.
If your driving will be mostly highway, much less difference. |
#23
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Toyota made only three change when switching from r-12 too 134.
Changed refrigerant oil and the junction O-rings. Added more window tint to reduce heat load. The major components remained the same. --
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Bull Nose Formula-461, 6x-4, Q-jet, HEI, TH400, 8.5 3.08, superslowjunk Last edited by Blued and Painted; 05-12-2017 at 01:00 PM. |
#24
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R-12 works better in the old systems. Hands down. Whatever you decide on make sure you use the proper oil. The two are not compatible.
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http://www.machdevelopment.com/album...775/527566.htm |
#25
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The phasing out is due to the patent running out. It's all about it he almighty dollar!
I have used 134a in my 71 and 78 T/A' s with no adverse affects for over 10 years. Yes, with 134a the condensers have more fins per inch and they do run at a higher head pressure. You're final vent temp should be about the same, but the R134a undoubtedly takes longer to get to temp. That's the real down side. In both these cars I run not only the factory but the original condensers, which are terrible when it comes to efficiency compared to a modern aluminum one. They just transfer the heat as good. As a matter of fact it's unfair to even compare the two. If I made that change it would be better yet. But in my 71 Fbody which we all know Fbodyshave the worst duct systems of just about any car produced in the modern world gives me 38 to 40 degrees at the center vent on the hottest So. Florida day idling using a thermostatic fan clutch and regular fan. On the highway you can't set it low enough.
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1978 Black & Gold T/A [complete 70 Ram Air III (carb to pan) PQ and 12 bolt], fully loaded, deluxe, WS6, T-Top car - 1972 Formula 455HO Ram Air numbers matching Julep Green - 1971 T/A 455, 320 CFM Eheads, RP cam, Doug's headers, Fuel injection, TKX 5 Spd. 12 Bolt 3.73, 4 wheel disc. All A/C cars |
#26
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R 12 is the best freon in the old cars to use. The system was designed for R12. When converting to 134a, people don't realise you need a bigger evaporator, and condenser to make it work efficiently. 134 will never give you what R12 does. Low cooling evap temps, Unless your car was Designed for 134a. As long as you don't have a leak fill it with R12. Simple to check before you ever add freon let the system sit their for and hour under a vacuum, If it holds vacuum you know the system is tight. I have r12 cans .some
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#27
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I miss R-12.
My 78 was converted to 134. It will keep you from dying on a hot NC day, but that's about it. Still better than nothing. R-12 if you can swing it!
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1978 Y88 Trans Am 4-Speed 47k original mile Survivor |
#28
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R12 flat out works better in these older cars.
The additional cost of tracking down R12 cans is minimal. How often are you servicing your A/C for it to be a big deal? Spending a little more per can shouldn't bankrupt you.
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"Those poor souls have made the fatal mistake of surrounding us. Now we can fire in any direction" 1970 Trans Am RAIII 4 speed 1971 Trans Am 5.3 LM7 1977 Trans Am W72 Y82 1987 Grand National |
#29
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r12 is the best and its not hard to get. OEM last installed it in 1993-94? its still around, as r134 will be here for a long time. The new r1234yf is $700 for 10 lbs. For now the wrecked cars in body shops (your insurance company) is paying for it and rates will go up to cover it.
Be sure to use new hoses, as they are much better at sealing the system. Do not install the accumulator until you are ready to put the system under a vacuum. If they use a Micron Gauge, it should be easy to tell if there is any leak. Sometimes the compressor shaft seal can leak under a vacuum, but will seal under pressure. I would for sure get someone that knows what they are doing, it's easy to get air mixed in with the refigerent if little cans are used. Be sure to try to get all air flow to be pulled through the condenser, seal off any gaps so there is no air leakage between the condenser and the radiator. Be sure your clutch fan is good and operational.
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1968 Firebird 400 RAII M21, 3.31 12 bolt, Mayfair Maize. 1977 Trans Am W72 400, TH350, 3.23 T Top Everyone you will ever meet knows something you don't. Bill Nye. |
The Following User Says Thank You to TedRamAirII For This Useful Post: | ||
#30
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A lot of bad advice and incorrect information in this thread.
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#31
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I stick with R12, works great, I picked up a 25 lb tank, and the 2 machines, I have my own personal hole in the ozone layer. If your ever at the North Pole, it’s the hole above John’s cabin 🤣
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🧩 Burds Parts, Finding those Hard to Find PCs, no Fisher Price Toys Here Just Say No To 8” Flakes F ire B irds 🇮🇱 |
#32
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Care to share what you believe is bad advice or incorrect info?
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1976 LeMans B09 Freeway Enforcer, 455/M40 Smokey 1977 Trans Am, 400/M21 Black/Gold Bandit. 44K actual miles 2017 Sierra SLT 1500 Z71 4X4 2019 Canyon SLT Crew 4X4 |
#33
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Well, come on, then. Don't be shy. What wisdom do you have to share on this?
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1979 Trans Am W72 400/4-Speed WS6 - Starlight Black Hardtop
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The Following User Says Thank You to nUcLeArEnVoY For This Useful Post: | ||
#34
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I have to admit I have not been in an older vehicle that had R12 but I did put 134 in my 79 Trans Am, works good. I dont know if R12 would keep car any cooler but I do know that whatever refrigerant you use it will not increase blower motor speed. In my opinion that is the real problem with older vehicles. The blower motors need to push out more cold air then they do. When I use my AC in TA on hot days the fan is on high always and that barely rates maybe a 2 or 3 on my more modern vehicles.
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going bandit-Reynolds style |
#35
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The vent temps in both of my old Pontiacs with R12 is 36-38 degrees F. The biggest issue with 134 in the old stuff is the condenser design, and getting all of the old oil out before putting the 134 in. If you swap condensers, then the cooling should be comparable.
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1976 LeMans B09 Freeway Enforcer, 455/M40 Smokey 1977 Trans Am, 400/M21 Black/Gold Bandit. 44K actual miles 2017 Sierra SLT 1500 Z71 4X4 2019 Canyon SLT Crew 4X4 |
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