[jhein]

I like manuals for toy cars. But I won't disparage my auto brothers.

[HoovDaddy]

Originally Posted by scott70

When it comes to a play toy I like a manual.

Exactly! Every toy in the past 43 years has been a 4 speed because they are fun to drive. But my wife has never been enthusiastic about driving a manual in traffic. My last daily driver before retirement was a 6 speed Acura RSX-S and prior to that two 6 Speed Camaro SS's on my 105 mile a day commute. The manuals were entertaining to me in all that traffic. When a grandson came 3 years ago I decided to sell our C3 Vette 4 speed convertible and get a convertible with a back seat for the kid and an automatic so she can drive it also. The A has a 4 speed.

[Stuart]

Just goes to show people will argue about anything. The vast majority of cars in the US have automatic transmissions and it's been that way since the 1950s, so your side won long ago.

[Sirrotica]

I have had wreckers that are both 5 speeds, and T 400, tell me again how I need a manual to haul out cars, because I'd much rather my current, IH S1600 was a automatic, but it is an old U Haul chassis, and they came with 7.3 IDI diesels, and 5 speed Spicer manual transmissions.

What my wrecker looked like previous to shortening the frame and installing the wrecker body:



The Jeep wrecker I built had a 455 Pontiac, with a T 400 it surely pushed tons of snow, and hauled hundreds of cars with that transmission. If anyone here has ever plowed snow commercially, most snow removal companies won't even hire an owner/operator with a manual transmission, they take too long to back up long distances because they are geared too low in reverse.

Since I spent just shy of half a century in my hometown, Erie PA. I have run wrecker, and plowed snow commercially with the Jeep wrecker, for many years. I can't agree that that type of vehicle would have been any better with a manual transmission. In Erie they measure snow in feet, not inches.....

Here's the Jeep:

[scott70]

I plowed snow for a winter with a mid 70s dodge pick up years ago. Never again...what a work out. Being the thread was aimed at a mecum auction most people can understand the slight jabs they might make at auto muscle cars. When I was young practically everything I owned was a manual. As you get older you get a little lazier. I saw a sticker on car the other day...it said this vehicle equipped with a millennial anti theft device...next to it was a picture of a stick shift. I thought it was funny and probably somewhat true.

[wovenweb]

Originally Posted by scott70

As you get older you get a little wiser.

FIFY.

Driven both, end up with automatics in my older cars because more often than not they sell for less.

[geeteeohguy]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

Mecum is in the business of selling cars and maximizing profits, period. They know who their buyers are, their ages, what they have been told for decades, and what rhetoric sells the cars. For 90% of the buyers, the only thing the transmission does is move the car in reverse out of an enclosed trailer. Then shift into 1st to crawl from the trailer parking to the show field. Repeat process until board out of your mind or the prospect for a killing at another auction comes around. For everyone else, choose the transmission that best suits your needs. Muscle cars were produced in large numbers with MANUAL and AUTOMATICS for a reason. Personally, if I am watching a Mecum Auction, I just mute the audio. It's like listening into a middle school shop class circa 1973.

THIS^^^.
I prefer a 4 speed in a classic musclecar. That said, I've run the original TH400 in my '67 GTO ragtop for the past 39 years and 130,000 miles. The car is a great cruiser, and the TH400 allows me to pull 2.56 rear gears. Can't really do that with a Muncie 4 speed. I have owned a bunch of first gen GTO's...the stick cars never had their born with engines, the auto cars always did. And were a lot less beat up (ten year old used cars at the time). I passed up MANY 2 speed auto GTO's looking for a convertible, and settled on the TH400 '67 because it was a performer equal to or better than a 4 speed. Unlike the St300, which killed performance in the GTO's I had with it. To each his own, there are benefits to both. The auction guys get none of my attention as they know less about these cars than most of us here.

[242177P]

Originally Posted by tom s

REAL muscle cars have 3 pedals!Face facts!Tom

[Bermuda Blue]

Originally Posted by pont3

In my opinion, those archaic manual transmissions were replaced by automatic for a reason. All this so called control and connection to the car is just nonsense for me and the automatic transmission was created for a reason.

And the primary reason is so that females car drive the car

[Formulabruce]

Some stuff..
1. GM made 4 speed automatic overdrive transmissions
During...... yeah. WW2. what took them sooo long to even
Make the TH350-C ??
2. Cars in 60's and early 70's did NOT commute that far to work.
3. 4 speed cars in 60's And early 70's did NOT , on average drive More than 30 miles in a trip. With the "required" LOW rear gear,, many DIED in the town they lived in at 10-12 years old.
4. Corvettes were available with a Big block AND a POWERGLIDE, Factory !!
5. NEW Corvettes are..... AUTO ONLY. ( I know about paddles)
I have had many 4 speed cars, If I still had them, they would be 5 speeds, not the fake 5 speeds either, real overdrive. I prefer the AOD though, and due to my back and leg, its all I can use. I like the fuel economy. And ease of use. With shift kit..its pretty tight.

[Tom Vaught]

I run a Doug Nash 5 speed because Doug nash was a personal friend and gave me a killer deal on the thing. RIP DOUG!

Otherwise I love my 10 speed Ford/GM Automatic Transmission in my truck.

Tom V.

[Scarebird]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

I run a Doug Nash 5 speed because Doug nash was a personal friend and gave me a killer deal on the thing. RIP DOUG!

Otherwise I love my 10 speed Ford/GM Automatic Transmission in my truck.

Tom V.

Did Ford and GM go in together on the 10L80E?

[carbking]

QUOTE FormulaBruce:
"2. Cars in 60's and early 70's did NOT commute that far to work.
3. 4 speed cars in 60's And early 70's did NOT , on average drive More than 30 miles in a trip. With the "required" LOW rear gear,, many DIED in the town they lived in at 10-12 years old." END QUOTE

My guess would be that you grew up in an urban area.

In 1964, I was commuting round trip a bit more than 100 miles daily.
In 1965, I drove a 4-speed car to college, and came home on week-ends; round trip of about 200 miles.

Just after WWII, my Dad commute about 30 miles daily; my Mother started commuting in 1952 round trip about 20 miles daily.

In 1957, my Dad commuted 1400 miles each weekend. He accomplished this for approximately 7 months, in a 1952 Ford 1/2 with manual transmission.

Fast forward to 1971, and Dad was commuting 140 miles round trip daily.

My family was not the exception (other than Dad's 1400 mile commute).

In rural America, cars did commute a good distance, even in the 1940's and 1950's.

Longevity?

The '52 Ford manual went over 200,000 miles.
A 1949 Ford 3 speed with OD went about 120,000 miles before traded.
A 1955 Mercury with A/T was traded at about 70,000, no issues.
A 1957 Mercury with A/T lost the tranny at about 80,000.
A 1961 Ford with A/T lost its tranny about 5 times between 8,000 and 30,000. The last Ford service department finally found the tranny had been built with too long a screw blocking a fluid port. Mother sent a copy of the repair to Ford, and Ford reimbursed them for ALL 5 repairs.

Automatics of this period simply were nowhere near as reliable as manual transmissions.

We have had similar results with vehicles from 1967 to 1996. Without exception, the sticks outlasted the automatics.

The 1940's, 1950's, and 1960's cars, other than the automatics and water pumps, were pretty reliable. We never lost an engine until Dad lost one (import) in 1978 at about 85,000 due to a fiber timing gear.

Next one was a V-6 GM product at 75,00 miles about 1990, and a Ford product at about 80,000 (1996 model).

The most unreliable parts were the water pumps. On all of the vehicles mentioned, water pumps averaged about 35,000 miles to failure.

So far the only post 1970 vehicle which we have had really good results was a Ford 300 CID six.

We have learned to trade the new ones at about 75,000 miles to reduce issues.

So back to the original topic: as stated earlier, I don't watch Mecum, so no opinion on Mecum and their commentators (other than the 15 minutes or so I wasted watching them once). I have a friend who has built MANY cars for the auctions, and after his stories, I wouldn't bid on any of the auction cars, regardless of the transmission.

Perhaps memories such as mine account for the manuals bringing more money than the automatics.

Jon

[59safaricat]

In my younger days, it was a manual transmission or nothing at all. I've been daily driving manual transmissions for 27 years straight (car and truck) and so over it now. I enjoy getting into my Lincoln Towncar, putting it into gear, and cruising.

I will admit that sports cars and automatics seem like a cheesy combo but if its' a daily driver, especially in constant heavy traffic, I'll give it a pass. Muscle cars go either way, I think both are cool. Automatic transmissions prior to lock up torque converters are more inefficient than a manual transmission but if it's a play toy, who gives a....

When it comes to beating the living crap out of a car, a well built automatic will hold up better every time.

As far as old automatics go in the old days, I think the biggest killer for them was not changing the fluid on a regular basis which was like every 15K miles back then. Maintenance on automatics generally go unnoticed and nobody pays attention to them until they quit working right. By then, the damage is done. New cars don't even have a dipstick and changing the fluid is a long and drawn out nightmarish process. Couple that with 8+ speed and constant shifting and it's a recipe for disaster.

[necdb3]

I think it's just personal preference. I own both. I have to admit, my 69 T/A just doesn't do it for me with an automatic however, I love my 75 G-ville Conv. which obviously has an automatic. To me, it depends on the car.

[72projectbird]

I have both. I've never let someones opinion sway me one way or another. If someone doesn't like my car because it's an auto, so what? It's mine, not theirs. If they don't like it because it's a stick, again, so what?

Some people like autos, some sticks. Everyone is free to own what they like. Everyone is also free to voice their opinions on transmission choices. It only matters if you put any value on their opinion.

[pont3]

Just to set the record straight, I like a manual transmission as much as everyone what annoys me is the fact that they propagate that a manual is somehow inherently more valuable than an automatic This, despite the fact the the auto destroys the manual in performance tests. I'm sorry, if you need a manual transmission to display your manhood, you are in serious trouble. Thing is. I bought that '05 GTO knowing that it wasn't going to be a daily driver, just a fun car to reminisce the old days of manually shifting a car. Well, I found out that era of my life has gone by and I simply prefer automatics.

I DO believe it is about PREFERENCE, and I respect ALL preferences. But, if you own, or have ever owned a manual equipped car from the seventies, you know that there are issues and drawbacks that might have soured some of us older folks to manual tranmssions.

[400 4spd.]

.....4. Corvettes were available with a Big block AND a POWERGLIDE600505&d=1665870696[/IMG][/QUOTE].....

Absolutely. As the owner of a 4 speed 67 Corvette, I’m aware of how the resale value of an automatic equipped Corvette suffers in comparison.
Having the matching VIN on my M20 trumps running a Powerglide.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Scarebird

Did Ford and GM go in together on the 10L80E?

Yes on hardware, No on software. I think they are both very nice driving and durable. One of my fleet vehicles, a 2015 Ford Transit 350 just turned 300K miles. No issues ever, No leaks ever. OE fluid still in the transmission. (lifetime fill)

[tom s]

I’m a couple month short of 78,I have 3 pontiac stick shift muscle cars.The day comes and I can’t push in the clutch and drive them they will be for sale on this site and I will be driving a paddle shifted Late model Corvette.Just me.Tom