[mzbk2l]

Originally Posted by jhein

All I know is that my DD vehicles are affordable to own, operate and maintain. They are extraordinarily reliable and I never need to plan trips around refueling. Also, I don't need my DD to do a 9 sec 1/4.

I've actually been thinking about my next DD. I have been considering getting something like a early 70s Suburban. Doing it as a resto mod with modern interior and instruments and BB chevy motor with a Qjet.

Co-worker of mine just did that; his wife refused to drive anything new and wanted a 70s Suburban to match his 70s CK truck, so now they own two of those.

[Tenney]

...

[jerry455]

Is the Plaid really that much? Wow, I would never pay that. I can think of a lot of other cars I would rather own and drive daily for that money. I still can't get past the looks. The interior looks like inside of a refrigerator, plain and white. I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I like the idea of a 73-91 pick up, Blazer or Suburban. We still like to camp and use my Chevrolet Colorado to pull our travel trailer when we do our running events. I don't see many charging stations around the northern part of Michigan and how difficult will it be to charge a truck pulling a trailer.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Scarebird

I would wager 97% of the time trips taken in a vehicle are less than 20 miles and for pedestrian tasks; commuting to work, grocery shopping, etc.

A Nissan Leaf or equivalent would more than suffice here.

Absolutely agree with you. I am not really an EV hater. I think they would make an excellent supplemental transportation device. When the time comes that I can buy a used one for 5K or so, I may be in the market for around town use. But as for personal transportation REPLACEMENT, I still think it's going to be long after I am worm food. It will be fun seeing how it all pans out.

[tom s]

Bolt!Tom

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by Scarebird

I would wager 97% of the time trips taken in a vehicle are less than 20 miles and for pedestrian tasks; commuting to work, grocery shopping, etc.

A Nissan Leaf or equivalent would more than suffice here.

If I had a need for a 3rd vehicle that would be used like that, a Nissan Leaf or (most likely) a Chevy Bolt would be my choice.

Sure wouldn't be a much higher priced Tesla for that kind of limited use.

[scott70]

Originally Posted by The Champ

In most of the country, it is an issue.

As was posted, mgarblik was making over a 1000 mile trip. You can fill up an empty ICE in less than 5 minutes (and that includes the time to get off and back on the road).

Can't do that with an 'empty' EV. How far off your route do you have to go to find a charger? Is there a charger available at that location? How long does it take to 'fill' an empty EV? And I want the time for all the different levels of chargers...

Your comparison of paying for $40 vs $139 is lacking one key piece of information - how much range was added for the price difference? I'd be willing to bet that you can drive a lot farther before having to refuel the diesel.

And this is one of the big problems as of now with EVs. Also If im off somewheres and run out of gas at least someone can bring me a can or I can go get one. Some one going to bring you a charger and then wait 15 hours for a slight charge? Sounds like youre waiting for a wrecker. For anybody that uses their vehicle for long hauls,cold weather,remote areas and any type of work its the definition of the word impractical. If a EV works for you then great but please dont try to fluff them up like its the greatest thing since sliced bread. And again the quickness of some EVs really doesnt matter much in the current topic. If they made a nuke motor that was in a car and was as fast as the speed of sound is that a selling point to people?

[jhein]

People cite circumstances of limited use where an EV could be a realistic alternative to an ICEV. However, what is not said is that the ICEV alternative can still do everything the EV can in those limited circumstances, and all others. So then maybe a person would need two vehicles, one for short trips and one for longer trips. The economics of that don't really make sense when you can own one vehicle that can do it all. EVs offer no advantage that I can see.

[Radman]

I have been watching the EV debate for some time. I do not think that they would be practical for me. I live in the Appalachian foothills in Eastern Ohio. Today I made a trip to the grocery store, 18 miles one way. I used my GPS and got the major elevation changes in that trip. There are many minor changes that I did not list. Here are my elevation based on sea level by the GPS. At the garage 1028, top of the driveway 1161, at the road 1063. I will not list the other measurement locations but here are the big changes. 992, 1266, 1066, 1130, 962, 1066, 1130, 962, 908, 1145, 1158, 1024, 1136, 806, 920, 1111, 822.
OK add about 1000 pounds to the vehicle weight and drag it up and down those elevation changes. Also note that you will need to do those changes in the reverse order on the way back home.

[tom s]

Here in CA,some of the plugin hybreds are legal in the car pool lanes.Pretty good alternative for limited and trip traveling.Tom

[jhein]

Originally Posted by tom s

Here in CA,some of the plugin hybreds are legal in the car pool lanes.Pretty good alternative for limited and trip traveling.Tom

So the government is trying to bribe people into getting an EV by giving them access to the carpool lanes. LOL. Why would they do that?

[vertigto]

Curious what the rationale is for not promoting hybrids (for the normal consumer), like the EV push? Seems like it could be the best of both worlds, to lighten the dependence on any one fuel source and related infrastructure.

[jhein]

Originally Posted by vertigto

Curious what the rationale is for not promoting hybrids (for the normal consumer), like the EV push? Seems like it could be the best of both worlds, to lighten the dependence on any one fuel source and related infrastructure.

The key word there is "promote". Good technology doesn't need to be promoted. It promotes itself.

[kingbuzzo]

Strange, with those good looks you would think it would sell like hotcakes!

https://www.autoblog.com/2023/03/10/...organ-stanley/

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by kingbuzzo

Strange, with those good looks you would think it would sell like hotcakes!

Looks are a personal thing (personally, I think it looks worse than the much maligned Aztek) but besides that, you can't buy what isn't being built.

Production is slated for 'mid 2023'. Of course it was revealed back in the fall of 2019 with an estimated price of $40,000 (funny, you couldn't buy a Tesla Model 3 for that in 2019) so it will be nearly 4 years (if production starts on time - never a sure thing with Tesla) before unit #1 is sold (if they actually produce any this summer.

And who knows what the price will be. More than a buck $40,000, that's for sure....

[Sirrotica]

Having worked on electric propelled forklifts, and aerial lifts since back in the mid 80s I have some exposure to limitations of these vehicles. Typically a lead acid battery will be on charge for 2 times the use of the machine with a 120 volt charger that charges at 30-40 amps. If the machine is used for an 8 hour shift it will be off line for 16 hours. If the machine is used heavily, the charge will not make 8 hours, usually around 6 hours. Charging with 220 volts reduces the downtime, same as EV chargers do.

I can't tell you how many times I've come onto a construction site at about 1-2 in the afternoon that the electric/battery aerial lifts were being driven around the site with an extension cord plugged into the charger, so that they could finish the remainder of the shift. I have also have seen forklifts used in a freezer that would simulate cold weather environment that have severely reduced battery capacity when subjected to cold.

Having seen this with lead acid batteries, the lithium isn't that much more advanced that it is a miracle cure for the older style lead acid type. My lithium powered drills, and drivers are subject to the same short comings that the lead acid batteries have endured for years.

Just like anything else, if you want zero emissions inside a building, the electric propelled units are the answer. If you're doing real work, and moving heavy objects with a forklift, running an aerial lift up and down repeatedly in a tall building where there is air circulation from the outside, you want an ICE powered machine (propane, gasoline, or diesel). Each has their advantages in certain situations, as well as drawbacks. Much more overall power for the long run, over electric.

Myself, after exposure to both types of machines, and working on both as my profession, I definitely lean towards an ICE vehicle if it will be used heavily all day long. The electrics are more for light usage, and zero emissions in a enclosed environment. The ICE unit is definitely more versatile than the electrics, and usually cheaper to buy, run, and maintain overall.

The railroad industry has been using ICE engine, electromotive locomotives for years, if someone wants to have the range of an ICE vehicle, and lower emissions of an electric vehicle, I believe the hybrid is much more practical, than a pure electric vehicle. Tesla doesn't have that option, as far as I know of. Just the ICE generator in a trailer option, which goes back to the aerial lifts I posted about earlier, with extension cords powering the chargers, to finish the shift out ............LOL

[kingbuzzo]

Originally Posted by The Champ

Looks are a personal thing (personally, I think it looks worse than the much maligned Aztek) but besides that, you can't buy what isn't being built.

He has to jack up the prices to pay for the Twitter.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by kingbuzzo

He has to jack up the prices to pay for the Twitter.

Actually, he recently lowered the prices, so that some of his vehicles would qualify for the new government electric vehicle tax credits.

The other vehicles that were too expensive for the tax credits were reduced just reduced also - mainly in attempt to be more competitive be with the increased competition he is facing.

Tesla sold more vehicles last year than ever before, but their market share is dropping. Look for that to accelerate in 2023 and beyond.

The Teslaphiles for the most part believe nothing is better than a Tesla. But main stream America, if they want to try an electric car, are more inclined to go with a brand they are familiar with - Ford, Toyota, NIssan, Honda, GM, etc...

[kingbuzzo]

https://www.autoblog.com/2023/03/13/...y-wrong-owner/

[The Champ]

I've actually heard of this happening with Chrysler minivans before. Odds are against it happening, but it does.