[bdk1976]

They seem to be pretty clear on the matter! This makes no sense to me, but nothing coming out of the west coast these days does. Anybody know what this is about?

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/c...635849949.html

(NFW I'm considering this based on ad and dealer angle - just came across it browsing CL)

[Scarebird]

A quick googling of registration for CA vehicles that year should clear it up for you.

[geeteeohguy]

In CA, it is on the seller, not the buyer, to smog the car within 90 days prior to the sale.
So in theory, the dealer is breaking the CA laws by marketing this car in CA, even though they are saying it is not legal. Interesting.

[rjpaige3]

Looking at the pics, car is a 49-state emissions profile and probably doesn't pass a California smog test for that year. Since the dealer is responsible for providing current smog certification at time of sale, they probably don't want to be bothered about the potentially impossible task of getting it to pass.

[59safaricat]

There's a handful of counties in California that doesn't require a smog. Had a coworker register his car using his buddies address in Sonoma county.

[bdk1976]

I thought about the smog angle, but on a 40+ year old 'project' car? Wow. So does this mean you are unable to sell any non-running cars that have come from out of state from that era (how do you smog check a non-running vehicle)?

[TAKerry]

Maybe a cali member will check in but I think their smog requirements go back to something like 1975 and newer.

[Trulyvintage]

Click ….





Jim

[tom s]

I think pre 75s are exempt.Tom

[b-man]

Originally Posted by tom s

I think pre 75s are exempt.Tom

Correct.

When catalytic converters were mandated is where the cutoff is.

Used to be 1966 and later required smog checks but they changed it to 1975 after a while, I vowed to never own a hobby car newer than 1965 back then.

[OG68]

Out of state cars can be sold in California as long as they meet applicable emission standards for either Fed or California depending on where first sold.
California law states that the seller must test the car and provide proof that it passed the test within 90 days prior to registering within California. This is to protect the buyer.

However, many cars are sold with the understanding between buyer and seller that the buyer will be responsible for emissions testing. California doesn't really care who does the testing as long as it passes prior to registration.

1961-76 do not need to be tested BUT... must have all emissions equipment installed. If the sale is for a prior California registered car you can get by without a physical inspection but out of state cars may be subject to one. There are a few low population density counties that do not require testing primarily in the desert and mountain regions of the state.

One additional item; California residents cannot buy a new car from out of state that does not meet California standards to operate and be garaged within California. IIRC this applies to cars from new to two years old. But there are several states that use California emission standards for new vehicles.

[71GP76TA]

Originally Posted by tom s

I think pre 75s are exempt.Tom

1975 and older is exempt. 1997 and older diesels are exempt... IIRC

My 1975 T/A does not need smogged.

[rjpaige3]

The so called exempt zip codes still require a smog check on post '75 vehicles on change of ownership.

[72projectbird]

Man, I'm so glad I don't have to deal with that crap.

['ol Pinion head]

Of importance, the '80 model TransAms & Fornulas with optional engine LU8 (Turbo 301) were not allowed to be sold new in CA, as they didn't pass CA's rigid emission laws. It would not surprise me if it was the same with the '81 model Turbo 301 cars with their crap computer controlled emission controls.

Both the '80 model 301 turbo Qjets as well as both versions of the '81 turbo Qjets have a power enrichment circuit which richen up the primary side when under boost. In bringing in full boost in earlier & more of (actually developing a wider power band), less restriction in the exhaust & a custom tailored primary jet/rod combo are musts. Those mods, among others were far from smog sniffer friendly.

[mgarblik]

Not a California resident but I was an EPA certified trainer in Ohio for 10 years when we had mandatory emission testing here. If someone on the forum was really interested in buying that car, they need to verify with the seller what exactly is the hangup with the legal issues. IF the issue is emissions testing and IF the engine is stock and just runs decent, passing a CA emission test on that vehicle would not be difficult. The emission test on an antique is not what many people think. The car does not have to run as clean as it did when it was new. The most strict standard I have ever seen which is CA of course for an ancient car like that would be the car would need to run better than 1.5 times the tailpipe emissions it was certified to when it was built. In Ohio, the fail point was 2 times the build specs. Only a horrible running engine with missing equipment would fail. In 10 years of doing certifications, I never had an engine that couldn't be "tuned" to pass. Some took 2-3 tries.

[geeteeohguy]

Originally Posted by OG68

Out of state cars can be sold in California as long as they meet applicable emission standards for either Fed or California depending on where first sold.
California law states that the seller must test the car and provide proof that it passed the test within 90 days prior to registering within California. This is to protect the buyer.

However, many cars are sold with the understanding between buyer and seller that the buyer will be responsible for emissions testing. California doesn't really care who does the testing as long as it passes prior to registration.

1961-76 do not need to be tested BUT... must have all emissions equipment installed. If the sale is for a prior California registered car you can get by without a physical inspection but out of state cars may be subject to one. There are a few low population density counties that do not require testing primarily in the desert and mountain regions of the state.

One additional item; California residents cannot buy a new car from out of state that does not meet California standards to operate and be garaged within California. IIRC this applies to cars from new to two years old. But there are several states that use California emission standards for new vehicles.

This^^^. I held a CA smog inspectors license from 1981 to 2021. The law was always 'supposed' to cut off to 20 years old cars, but after they did it the last time around 1990 when the '66-'75 cars became exempt, it never happened again. There is (was) state legislation to move the cut-off date to 1982 and earlier, but it has been stalled for about 5 years that I know of. EVERY county in CA requires a smog inspection on vehicle transfer. Some counties require a two speed idle test (easy to pass) and others require a dyno test (not so easy to pass). CA sold Pontiacs in the '70's started to come with only the Olds engine as it would pass our draconian emissions requirements, where the old Strato-Streak would not. IMO, if this TA has a CA title, good luck selling it, even out of state. Being that it's a dealer, they are really sticking their neck out, IMO. The fines would exceed the value of the car easily. IMO, there should be NO smog inspection for vehicles in CA that are older than the 1996 model year. That's when OBD2 came out. The percentage of pre 1996 cars in the California fleet is so small, that it's simply not worth the hassle and expense to have a smog program for these cars. It's a money and resource waster and a huge PITA. Now you know why Roadkill only runs 1975 and earlier cars and trucks. No smog.

[Sirrotica]

Just curious of how the guys on Motor trend, and Hot Rod drive all the abortions on CA roads. They do it all the time, and all the stuff that comes out of Steve Dulcich's garage,and Freibergers cars aren't going to pass either. There have been post 75 cars on both of those shows driven in CA on public roads.



100% glad I, don't live there....

Registration is sky high also.

[rjpaige3]

An out of state buyer would not need to worry one bit if it passes CA smog or not, because it won't be registered there. They only have to worry about their home state's requirements. And 49-state cars aren't as dirty as one might think. My '78 Catalina (dead stock 49-state car with a 400, currently around 45K original miles) passes handily every two years since I bought it in 2014, putting out less than 50% of max allowable NOx and less than 20% of max HC.


Random thought: Does this car even run??

[Scarebird]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

This^^^. I held a CA smog inspectors license from 1981 to 2021...

Expanding on this - one of the issues I noted (perhaps incorrectly?) was that a vehicle, say a 1979 Firebird, would have to have ALL the OEM emissions devices present and operational. This influenced the decision to run an EROD motor in my 79.

Was this incorrect?

Could you take a P400, tune it correctly, run a pair of aftermarket cats and CARB would pass it?